So if Jakob runs a 1200 in 2min45.00 (which is 55 seconds per lap pace), continues at that pace for another 150m - which is about 20.5 seconds (you still with me here?), if that final 300m was 43 seconds it would mean he covered the last 150m of it in 22.5 seconds (or 60 second pace). That for an elite runner is "eating sh-t" in the last 150m. You understand the hypothetical situation now? The basis for this hypothesis is that running under 2.46 at 1200m might be tough for Jakob given his 800m speed it probably right at about 1.45.0 seconds and despite his incredible endurance an intermediate time of 1.49.5/1.50.0 is still a very tight differential. Which btw is the underlying point that Steve Cram, the former 1500m and mile WR holder is making.
Is this still perplexing for you? FFS.
You're trying to explain the challenges Ingebrigtsen faces with fans who simply throw numbers around without knowing what they mean.
I don't think so. I think they are saying if he slows to 43 after a 2:45.0 at 1200, then the only way to mitigate this is to increase LT even more than he has, in order to NOT run 43 over the last 300. I'm not sure what the problem with that is? I'm not arguing but why would leg speed mitigate that problem over an even stronger LT? I'm seriously just asking. I'm not a physiologist.
You're trying to explain the challenges Ingebrigtsen faces with fans who simply throw numbers around without knowing what they mean.
I don't think so. I think they are saying if he slows to 43 after a 2:45.0 at 1200, then the only way to mitigate this is to increase LT even more than he has, in order to NOT run 43 over the last 300. I'm not sure what the problem with that is? I'm not arguing but why would leg speed mitigate that problem over an even stronger LT? I'm seriously just asking. I'm not a physiologist.
It isn't a technical issue as you seem to think; it is about his capacity. Any argument that he can run 3:26 or better assumes he is capable of it. What Stitchmo is explaining is the not inconsiderable obstacles for Ingebrigtsen to achieve that goal, given what we have seen of his qualities as a runner over that distance. Runners aren't faster because we think they are or that they can simply modify their training to become so.
I don't think so. I think they are saying if he slows to 43 after a 2:45.0 at 1200, then the only way to mitigate this is to increase LT even more than he has, in order to NOT run 43 over the last 300. I'm not sure what the problem with that is? I'm not arguing but why would leg speed mitigate that problem over an even stronger LT? I'm seriously just asking. I'm not a physiologist.
It isn't a technical issue as you seem to think; it is about his capacity. Any argument that he can run 3:26 or better assumes he is capable of it. What Stitchmo is explaining is the not inconsiderable obstacles for Ingebrigtsen to achieve that goal, given what we have seen of his qualities as a runner over that distance. Runners aren't faster because we think they are or that they can simply modify their training to become so.
You're wrong. I checked the accounts of his record and they were given as outdoor. Meadowbank is not an indoor facility. So p*ss off.
As predicted, third post. Again wrong (didn't get the point so far). Insult.
At least seven more posts from him until he gets it. Probably much more.
Puttemans' 1973 indoor record over 2 Miles astonishingly was set indoors. Seems way beyond Army's understanding. For over 20 years it was the fastest 2 Miles time.
Name the facility where he set this record. You are also unaware that his record was bettered the following year by Viren. It did not stand for "20 years". But in any case this BS is irrelevant to the thread. Go and waste space somewhere else.
I don't think so. I think they are saying if he slows to 43 after a 2:45.0 at 1200, then the only way to mitigate this is to increase LT even more than he has, in order to NOT run 43 over the last 300. I'm not sure what the problem with that is? I'm not arguing but why would leg speed mitigate that problem over an even stronger LT? I'm seriously just asking. I'm not a physiologist.
It isn't a technical issue as you seem to think; it is about his capacity. Any argument that he can run 3:26 or better assumes he is capable of it. What Stitchmo is explaining is the not inconsiderable obstacles for Ingebrigtsen to achieve that goal, given what we have seen of his qualities as a runner over that distance. Runners aren't faster because we think they are or that they can simply modify their training to become so.
I hope this discussion thread remains civil because I want to learn (and am learning a lot). This is very interesting.
As predicted, third post. Again wrong (didn't get the point so far). Insult.
At least seven more posts from him until he gets it. Probably much more.
Puttemans' 1973 indoor record over 2 Miles astonishingly was set indoors. Seems way beyond Army's understanding. For over 20 years it was the fastest 2 Miles time.
Name the facility where he set this record. You are also unaware that his record was bettered the following year by Viren. It did not stand for "20 years". But in any case this BS is irrelevant to the thread. Go and waste space somewhere else.
4th post, still far from understanding. Changing the subject. Exactly as predicted.
In '74, Viren has not set any record. Putteman's time was the fastest 2 Miles for over 20 years. You are really not able to find the facility, NOT ABLE.
Name the facility where he set this record. You are also unaware that his record was bettered the following year by Viren. It did not stand for "20 years". But in any case this BS is irrelevant to the thread. Go and waste space somewhere else.
4th post, still far from understanding. Changing the subject. Exactly as predicted.
In '74, Viren has not set any record. Putteman's time was the fastest 2 Miles for over 20 years. You are really not able to find the facility, NOT ABLE.
I'm not going to debate with someone who clearly has issues, as you do.
4th post, still far from understanding. Changing the subject. Exactly as predicted.
In '74, Viren has not set any record. Putteman's time was the fastest 2 Miles for over 20 years. You are really not able to find the facility, NOT ABLE.
I'm not going to debate with someone who clearly has issues, as you do.
zuzuzuzu, see? As usual, the coward leaves when confronted with his ignorance. He is a nobody. A sad 70 year old who spends his days on Letsrun. No friends, no family... Sad.
You're trying to explain the challenges Ingebrigtsen faces with fans who simply throw numbers around without knowing what they mean.
I don't think so. I think they are saying if he slows to 43 after a 2:45.0 at 1200, then the only way to mitigate this is to increase LT even more than he has, in order to NOT run 43 over the last 300. I'm not sure what the problem with that is? I'm not arguing but why would leg speed mitigate that problem over an even stronger LT? I'm seriously just asking. I'm not a physiologist.
I agree with this. He doesn't need leg speed for what is a small distance left to cover, (5 meters). Obviously he can run 54.9 for a 400, the problem is he has to do that 3 and 3/4 times. That is a matter of endurance and lactic tolerance, not leg speed.
It isn't a technical issue as you seem to think; it is about his capacity. Any argument that he can run 3:26 or better assumes he is capable of it. What Stitchmo is explaining is the not inconsiderable obstacles for Ingebrigtsen to achieve that goal, given what we have seen of his qualities as a runner over that distance. Runners aren't faster because we think they are or that they can simply modify their training to become so.
I hope this discussion thread remains civil because I want to learn (and am learning a lot). This is very interesting.
The question we don't know is how much can a top athlete improve on their best - because they all have limits. The point raised by Cram, which provoked this debate, is that there are limitations in Jakob's toolkit - namely his "speed" - which he would somehow need to improve to take the wr. It isn't a given that he can do that.
I'm not going to debate with someone who clearly has issues, as you do.
zuzuzuzu, see? As usual, the coward leaves when confronted with his ignorance. He is a nobody. A sad 70 year old who spends his days on Letsrun. No friends, no family... Sad.
I don't think so. I think they are saying if he slows to 43 after a 2:45.0 at 1200, then the only way to mitigate this is to increase LT even more than he has, in order to NOT run 43 over the last 300. I'm not sure what the problem with that is? I'm not arguing but why would leg speed mitigate that problem over an even stronger LT? I'm seriously just asking. I'm not a physiologist.
I agree with this. He doesn't need leg speed for what is a small distance left to cover, (5 meters). Obviously he can run 54.9 for a 400, the problem is he has to do that 3 and 3/4 times. That is a matter of endurance and lactic tolerance, not leg speed.
You don't get that lactic intolerance increases the closer and longer that an athlete runs to near their top speed. Jakob is required to do that to beat 3:26. So he risks tying up to run at that pace.
This post was edited 49 seconds after it was posted.
4th post, still far from understanding. Changing the subject. Exactly as predicted.
In '74, Viren has not set any record. Putteman's time was the fastest 2 Miles for over 20 years. You are really not able to find the facility, NOT ABLE.
I'm not going to debate with someone who clearly has issues, as you do.
5th post. Hasn't understood anything. Just five posts more to go.
You were wrong with your statement to which I replayed. You just can't agree to it.
The normal way of a discussion is just far beyond of you. When you are corrected on something that's the most natural thing. People agree to it and the discussion continues with the new knowledge. Not so for you.
I'm not going to debate with someone who clearly has issues, as you do.
5th post. Hasn't understood anything. Just five posts more to go.
You were wrong with your statement to which I replayed. You just can't agree to it.
The normal way of a discussion is just far beyond of you. When you are corrected on something that's the most natural thing. People agree to it and the discussion continues with the new knowledge. Not so for you.
Knock it off dude. You don't agree with him. Ok. Move on! Go out with your friends or do something tonight. I, and a lot of other posters, want to understand Cram's statement more. Just let it go.
As predicted, third post. Again wrong (didn't get the point so far). Insult.
At least seven more posts from him until he gets it. Probably much more.
Puttemans' 1973 indoor record over 2 Miles astonishingly was set indoors. Seems way beyond Army's understanding. For over 20 years it was the fastest 2 Miles time.
Name the facility where he set this record. You are also unaware that his record was bettered the following year by Viren. It did not stand for "20 years". But in any case this BS is irrelevant to the thread. Go and waste space somewhere else.
Putteman’s 8:13 in 1973, is noted as being run indoors on the World Athletics site. It was run in a 190m, wooden track, but I couldn’t find the name of the facility.
Name the facility where he set this record. You are also unaware that his record was bettered the following year by Viren. It did not stand for "20 years". But in any case this BS is irrelevant to the thread. Go and waste space somewhere else.
Putteman’s 8:13 in 1973, is noted as being run indoors on the World Athletics site. It was run in a 190m, wooden track, but I couldn’t find the name of the facility.
zuzuzuzu, see? As usual, the coward leaves when confronted with his ignorance. He is a nobody. A sad 70 year old who spends his days on Letsrun. No friends, no family... Sad.
And another.
Another what? Another one of your almost 29,000 posts that are just anger, rage, ignorance? Yeah.
5th post. Hasn't understood anything. Just five posts more to go.
You were wrong with your statement to which I replayed. You just can't agree to it.
The normal way of a discussion is just far beyond of you. When you are corrected on something that's the most natural thing. People agree to it and the discussion continues with the new knowledge. Not so for you.
Knock it off dude. You don't agree with him. Ok. Move on! Go out with your friends or do something tonight. I, and a lot of other posters, want to understand Cram's statement more. Just let it go.
I'm not the one destroying threads.
4
3
J I is inferior to peak Hicham el G and similar to ...
Steve Cram, one of the 1000 meter all-time greats had said: J Ingebrigtsen is not capable of racing sub-2:15 1000m, no matter how he trains going forward, would J I fanatics go on for over a dozen pages arguing S Cram's statement? Steve Cram looks at championship 1500m runners, either a runner is a sub-2:15 1000m man or not. Sub-2:15 1000m men have limited respect for 1500m runners who cannot race sub-2:15 1000m.
I hope this discussion thread remains civil because I want to learn (and am learning a lot). This is very interesting.
The question we don't know is how much can a top athlete improve on their best - because they all have limits. The point raised by Cram, which provoked this debate, is that there are limitations in Jakob's toolkit - namely his "speed" - which he would somehow need to improve to take the wr. It isn't a given that he can do that.
I'm going to go ahead and agree with you on the fact that Jakon CANNOT set the 1500m WR. I just spoke with my former collegiate coach, who actually is an exercise physiologist and his opinion mirrors yours - he just doesn't have the overall leg speed which is needed to compliment his exceptional LT and aerobic power. If he wants WR's, it's best if he pursues the 3000 and 5000 which he CAN get. Let the 1500 go as far as the WR is concerned.