More Kenyans busted

You haven't noticed how stupid your conclusions are. But there isn't much you notice, aside from your mirror, like the narcissist you are.

But it doesn't work for them.

So you haven't observed the stream of doping violations coming out of Kenya. I think it is the mirror which has your sole attention.

You have captured most of it. But you put it in a nutshell when you say there is nothing that will convince him against his views. He cannot afford to allow that or the house of cards he has built would collapse.

Of course, you don't have to be an expert to parrot mythology.

Sage would not be the first one, nor the smartest one, to draw wrong conclusions based on wrong information.

I did not ignore any of this evidence, but gave it due consideration and full weight. All of them put together are simply not compelling enough to do more than speculate about one possible alternative among many.

Sometimes anonymous posters share their interpretations and conclusions, which are not always thoroughly thought through, and don't necessarily follow from the evidence -- I do listen to their arguments and advice, but do not accept them gullibly and blindly.

Doping and anti-doping don't occur in vaccuums. It is important to understand the context, and what other important events were happening at the same time.

Sure, cold war performances improved. Besides cold war (blood) doping, there are many factors to consider, such as improved training, improved tracks, the transistion from amateurism to professionalism, to name a few.

The overwhelming science is rather under-whelming when explaining elite performance. The experts you rely on will be (or should be) the first to say their overwhelming science should not be extrapolated to elite performers/performances.

Sure Africans started improving when cycling was using EPO. At that same time, some European coaches were improving the training of the East Africans.

Which statements of experience athlete/coaches do you refer to? Besides Renato, I'm unaware of any such statements for distance running, except occasional athletes like Mathew Kisorio who didn't know what he took, who spoke about feelings, and most notably ran worse.

I interpret examples of successfully performing users of EPO as interesting, but they are examples, and examples are not evidence of a cause-effect relation.

When the ABP rolled out, the money dried up on the track, and runners started skipping the track and go straight to the roads. That's why runners like SloMo succeeded on the track.

I could have been convinced, if, for example, Russian men had actually succeeded in distance running, or sea-level non-Africans from the 1990s, 2000s, and 2010s outperformed their 1980s predecessors. It's not a question of 100% proof -- your evidence combined only permits speculation about potential benefits.

Steroids for women? If you say so.

Did you read it? Are you stating steroids don't work for women?

The irony.

Doping doesn't work on Kenyans - only Russian women md runners. Haven't you been following rekrunner?

So some drugs are performance enhancing then? Baby steps.

Kidding, right? No one besides Renato? Examples that keep coming up:

Flanagan who concurred with her husband that Jeptoo's doping enabled her to make Flanagan "look silly" in Boston;

Salazar who said that doping gives you 2 minutes in the marathon;

and, rather new, Canova who said that doping would probably have enabled Moses to run a 2:01 some ten years ago. You must have missed that part although you were very active in that thread too.

Plus, the hundreds if not thousands of athletes who doped over several seasons and years because they realized how much it helped (but haven't discussed it publicly). Actions speak louder than words. Thanks to the ABP, we know some of them by name, including Shobukhova, Kiptum, Jeptoo, and more.

RE Sumgong: Talam came out of nowhere and ran a highly successful doping program for years.

Not kidding.

I haven't seen Flanagan's, nor her husband's, "look silly" statement.

I have seen Salazar's statements, and given them full consideration and due weight, factoring his expertise and experience in 1998 and 1999.

I have seen Canova's statement too. He said "probably ... could be ... under-2:02", and "I never denied this possibility." I have given these full consideration and due weight.

How many of these hundreds, if not thousands, of doped over several seasons athletes have run top times? Actions without words speak differently to different people. Their actions speak to me of a lack of self-belief, and a strong belief that doping can fill the gap between what they have achieved, and what they believe they could be achieving.

When considering the opinions of all these hundreds/thousands of coaches/athletes, as told to me by anonymous posters, rather than looking for confirmation, I tend to consider three things: 1) what these coaches/athletes actually said, in context; 2) the bases, if any, for such statements; and 3) the appeal to authority fallacy.

What speaks even louder than actions and words are all-time historical results and global trends. We know for sure that non-Africans also dope, and have done so for decades, since the Cold War -- according to some of your many alter egos. For example, in the country which has by far doped more than all others, since as far back as the '70s, while we know Shobukhova's name, where were all the other Russians for all these decades? In the marathon, the Russian men were nowhere (NR = 2:09:07), and the Russian women (NR = 2:18:20 (annulled) followed by 2:20:47) are all-time worse than Japanese women, after just looking at the top-3.

If you had read my posts with comprehension, you would already know I have never raised doubts about steroids for women. This is one of your many strawmen (strawwomen?).

pulsesports.co.ke

AIU slap 23-year-old Esther Borura with three-year ban for doping

Pulse Sports

Esther Borura was banned due to the Presence of a Prohibited Substance (19-norandrosterone) and the Use of a Prohibited Substance (Nandrolone or Nandrolone. precursors).

Open link

Same drugs as Shelbo

Oh that's bad. Even rekrunner said the roids helped Shelburrito. So they must really give'em wings.

But how do you know steroids - but only steroids - are effective for women?(but only women, it seems. Not men. Also, steroids aren't the only drug they are using but a combination, as a doping 'cocktail'. Do those other drugs have no effect?). The same reasons that would lead to the conclusion that steroids enhance performance suggest that other drugs can do the same - even, believe it or not, EPO. You never cease to show what Sage says about you.

Two facts to consider:

- She tested positive in Dec. 2020, when there were no races to help.

-She ingested what WADA calls a low amount. The biology of nandrolone ingestion says that most of the nandrolone was filtered out before getting into her blood where it could help.

Another strawman, or perhaps a pure lack of comprehension. I didn't say any of that, but I said that I have never expressed doubts. It is you that "haven't been following rekrunner", despite your obsession.

The reasons for my lack of doubts should be obvious to those with basic knowledge of running history and high school biology.

In doping history, we often talk about East German women, Russian women, and Chinese women, but never East German men, Russian men, or Chinese men. Why is that? We often talk about how athletes like Caster Semenya, and how transsexual athletes impact the women's category, but not the men's. Why is that? One biological reason is that men already have large amounts of male hormones naturally, unlike women.

This applies to steroids and women, but would not apply to men, or to other drugs, like EPO.

The beauty of looking at alltime historical results is that it captures the end result of all doping combined. We don't need to know what individual athletes are doing, but we can look at whole populations, for signs of allegedly powerful and widespread effects. This is exactly the method used to support and sustain a belief that East Africans are doping with EPO. When we combine this what what little is known about doping (e.g. comparing Russia~100% versus Japan~0%), we can look for unnatural performance anomalies.