We like to have 1 thread per topic so we merged two threads together and kept the title of this thread. The other thread was entitled, "Assefa performance."
Could be a record day for him. I think today he easily betters his alltime record of 52 posts on a single day. Was it over 60? At the age of 75, he can't be clean.
One of the most blatant demonstrations of where the sport has come to and this is all you've got.
Already at 8 today, just in this thread. Your record from yesterday will not last long. Doping.
Fans of the sport don't want to know the reality. It's the same as it was with Lance Armstrong and gang when he was doing his thing.
Take a Ferrari out on the road and it can dust 99.9% of the cars as is, add rocket fuel to it and you will see it do something unnatural. That is an elite athlete using PEDS.
I've coached and been very close with several people that have competed at the very top of the sport and it's an open secret how dirty it is and the pipeline of questionable performances that continue to pour through it year after year just diminishes it's validity. It's been that way since post-WWII with the advancement of pharmaceuticals, open money in the sport, SPORTS AGENTS and wider access to travel.
There is world-class talent, there are good facilities (fast tracks, roads, training facilities, etc.) and good coaches that add up to create world-class performances, then mix in PEDS and shoes that have come into the sport over the past seven years and it creates what you are seeing now. It's a simple fact whether fans of sport really want to know it or not.
People have always been the same, the only thing that changes are the circumstances and opportunities, but it's even written in the Bible from hundreds of years ago in 1 Timothy 6:10 - "10 For the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. And some people, craving money, have wandered from the true faith and pierced themselves with many sorrows. 10 Lust for money brings trouble and nothing but trouble."
The lust for money, power and fame....in the end the sport will create it's own demise from the inside out like the Roman empire.
Five minute pace got you a medal in a 10k ten or so years ago. Ask Kara. Now we are adding 20 miles at the same pace? This is not an aberration. Grant Fisher, injured all summer then run 1255 and 725.
The only way to put this to bed and save the sport (who wants to root for chemical robots?) Is to have a ferocious testing system. No microdosing. No excuses. Clean sport.
Five minute pace got you a medal in a 10k ten or so years ago. Ask Kara. Now we are adding 20 miles at the same pace? This is not an aberration. Grant Fisher, injured all summer then run 1255 and 725.
The only way to put this to bed and save the sport (who wants to root for chemical robots?) Is to have a ferocious testing system. No microdosing. No excuses. Clean sport.
I feel you are mixing things up in a wrong way.
When you use some tactical race to determine possible marathon world records it just doesn't make sense IMO.
And someone being out for a couple weeks, cross training like mad and running well isn't suspicious at all.
IMO opinion the women marathon WR finally approaches a level, that mirrors the HM record. And... soon there will be sub 14 and sub 29 performances as well. If all this is believeable in the end? IDK... But I definitely see 7:59 - 13:45 - 28:30 - 1:02:00 - 2:09/10 around the corner after this season.
She is faster than your Ethiopian hero of the '60's, Abebe Bikila, when he set a world record at the Tokyo Olympics. Let that sink in. He was the MEN'S world record-holder and now he isn't as fast as a woman novice. Running has to be the dirtiest sport on the planet now.
What shoes did he wear?
Let what sink in? You cannot compare apples to oranges. You just end up with a fruit salad.
For comparison purposes, Abebe Bikila's world record is not a particularly fast time as a reference. Even in its own era, by the end of the decade, just 5 years later, Derek Clayton had run a 2:09:36 (not counting the disputed short course time of 2:08:33).
If you truly followed the evolution of the sport, a lot has happened in the marathon since the 1960's, with respect to event specific training, professionalism, event specialization, nutrition, clothes, and shoes, not to mention designing courses to be fast, and the use of drink stops and pacemakers, and the widespread participation of large populations of lightweight talented athletes from regions of athletes born and raised at altitude.
I just wonder what Bikila would be capable of today, with modern training, and modern shoes, on a cool September morning on a fast Berlin course with a group of pacemakers, including one as far as the Brandenburg gate.
lmao was going to post this as I was looking at her world athletics page, where did this come from
1:59 for 800 Runner ran her first Marathon in 2:15. 37 I believe this is her 2nd one, Imagine what an 1:54 for 800 Runner will do? under 2:10? Maybe Athing Mu?
It was her third they said on the broadcast.
Think about just the benefit of shoes in racing and training.
First- what do the doubters think a woman is capable of running?
Take that time and subtract the % the shoes give in a race.
Then the training effect- how much faster are your workouts in the shoes?
How many more workouts can you do because you're recovering from workouts faster (because of the shoes).
Now, what time does that bring the runner down to?
Of course we're going to doubt performances because so many runners (especially Kenyans lately) are getting popped.
One other thing- I'm old enough to remember when the talk was around- what times will they run when sub 4:00 milers run the marathon. They started to and times dropped.
Now, we have 54.xx 400 runners and 1:59 800 runners moving up.
Trust me…most Brits think Bobblehead was too. To the gills!
Really? Not too long ago, letsrun conducted a poll, and 72% of responders believed Paula's world record was clean.
Either of you quote the sources. I'm unable to locate anything on a reputable site such as YouGov, Ipsos MORI, ComRes, Opinium, et al. Opinions on The Daily Mail, The Sun, Telegraph, The Daily Star and the like don't count.
If this was was by Gidey, it would be believable, but now I am starting to think Ethiopa does have a PED issue. If this was a record by any other country, China or Russian for example...no one would believe it was clean.
Honest question - why have you not believed it until now? Running is a premier sport in Ethiopia and Kenya and for them the money goes further than in most countries. So why would they not be doping?
It is uncanny how many posts revolve around this word "believe".
Off my head, I can think of several reasons not to "believe":
- Doping is against the rules, acting as a deterrent for most athletes. Even the most pessimistic "scientific" athlete survey data suggests most world championship athletes do not dope.
- No scientific evidence that any PED even exists for the marathon -- an event that does not require muscular strength, and is competed far below maximum aerobic capacity.
- No strong anecdotal evidence either from athletes/coaches that any PED exists for the marathon. There are no athlete/coach testimonies, and the little information provided by the few busts that do occur make it difficult to draw any strong correlations between performance and doping.
- No scientific nor anecdotal evidence of other mechanisms, like PEDs permitting quicker recovery allowing more training, that leads to faster performances.
- Lack of world class fast marathon peformances by most of the non-African world suggests most athletes don't believe in PEDs for the marathon, or alternatively, they do believe, but do not realize the benefits because their unfounded beliefs proved ineffective.
- East Africans (Kenya and Ethiopia) have been dominating world distance running with a demonstrated depth of top quality as far back as 1981 World Cross Country that non-Africans have failed to replicate ever since.
- With respect to EPO and blood doping and ABP suspicion, two esteemed anti-doping researchers reviewed 12 years of blood data and found Kenyan and Ethiopian "suspicion" to be below average and found the marathon to be the cleanest event they looked at, with only 1 in 9 (11%) World Championship and Olympic medals to be won by an athlete that was ever considered "suspicious or at the very least, abnormal" at least once in the database.
Really? Not too long ago, letsrun conducted a poll, and 72% of responders believed Paula's world record was clean.
Either of you quote the sources. I'm unable to locate anything on a reputable site such as YouGov, Ipsos MORI, ComRes, Opinium, et al. Opinions on The Daily Mail, The Sun, Telegraph, The Daily Star and the like don't count.
I referenced the source: "letsrun conducted a poll".
But here you go. I'll let you decide if it is "reputable", but in 2014, letsrun polled their informed running audience about what they believed:
But again, this is the first and only data point we have for those particular shoes.
In comparison we have hundreds of PR/CR/AR/WR in vaporfly/alphafly
Her finish last year at Berlin proves she is within reach of such a performance IF the shoes really do provide another +2 VDOT by 3 ounces lighter and even more responsive foam
If it is the shoes, we are about to see some INSANE performances the rest of 2023 and 2024
Hey Armstrong. You once said that if Athing Mu ever ran below 1:55 that she is a doper. So are you ready to declare her a doper? will be waiting for your response.
Unlike you I am not so stupid as to insist that doping be narrowed down to a couple of hundredths of a second, especially in a md race. When I suggest 1:55 is about the clean limit I don't mean 1:55.00. Only a drongo would assume that. It is a ball-park. But the ball-park is clearly established by 1:53.2.
One of the most blatant demonstrations of where the sport has come to and this is all you've got.
Already at 8 today, just in this thread. Your record from yesterday will not last long. Doping.
So it takes doping to post on doping on Letsrun? You are really up on the subject. However, as an athlete can dope just for one race so it is possible to dope for one post on Letsrun. As you do. Unfortunately, in your case it isn't performance enhancing.
She is faster than your Ethiopian hero of the '60's, Abebe Bikila, when he set a world record at the Tokyo Olympics. Let that sink in. He was the MEN'S world record-holder and now he isn't as fast as a woman novice. Running has to be the dirtiest sport on the planet now.
What shoes did he wear?
Let what sink in? You cannot compare apples to oranges. You just end up with a fruit salad.
For comparison purposes, Abebe Bikila's world record is not a particularly fast time as a reference. Even in its own era, by the end of the decade, just 5 years later, Derek Clayton had run a 2:09:36 (not counting the disputed short course time of 2:08:33).
If you truly followed the evolution of the sport, a lot has happened in the marathon since the 1960's, with respect to event specific training, professionalism, event specialization, nutrition, clothes, and shoes, not to mention designing courses to be fast, and the use of drink stops and pacemakers, and the widespread participation of large populations of lightweight talented athletes from regions of athletes born and raised at altitude.
I just wonder what Bikila would be capable of today, with modern training, and modern shoes, on a cool September morning on a fast Berlin course with a group of pacemakers, including one as far as the Brandenburg gate.
Running shoes have a sole and an upper. They can't be too heavy. They have to be comfortable. Exactly what is it in that simple construction that takes an athlete into another universe of achievement? I suggest it is what they put in their body, not what they put on their feet, that greatly increases muscular strength, aerobic capacity and speed, and so transforms what they are capable of. We have just seen that yet again.
This post was edited 42 seconds after it was posted.
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