If we were actually following the data and science and weren't selfish, we wouldn't allow Cole Hocker to get vaccinated now

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

3) There is allegedly no positive confirmation that Hocker actually tested positive for COVID, that is, his alleged acquired immunity is speculative.

I didn't realize this was not confirmed. A lot of anti-vaccine people mysteriously decided they had COVID in the last year. Granted it's not crazy unlikely but has he said he had a positive PCR test and any/or symptoms?

dfasfdsaf wrote:

It hasn't gone through long term testing, so anyone who says, "I took the vaccine. I'm fine. You're an idiot for not getting it," literally has no idea what they are talking about...because NONE of us know the long term impact.

No one knows of the long term damages produced by the virus itself either, which alone negates your argument. We know the possible short to middle-term effects of the virus however, occurrence of which is several orders of magnitude more likely than that of the vaccines' side effects. Cost/benefit is as crystal clear as can be on an individual's level. This is without going into notions of public health and shared collective responsibilities.

Monkeys Skyping wrote:

This isn't wrong, but similarly we don't fully know the long term consequences of a COVID infection.

The available evidence suggests the vaccines are less risky than the alternative and it isn't all that close.

lol faster than me. :)

Quote Post wrote:

Another Option wrote:

I think each person has the right to make their own decision regarding whether to be vaccinated. I don't know everything that went into his decision, so I won't comment on his particular situation.

However, your argument is childish if not simply ignorant. An individual's decision to get, or not get, the vaccine here in the U.S. where the vaccine is plentiful doesn't have any impact on whether an old person in a faraway land gets it. It's like not eating your peas with tonight's dinner so that people in Sudan don't starve.

+1

There is not one old person who has not gotten the vaccine because a young person has. Not one. NOT ONE

This is BS, the US government and the vaccine producers could have been working hard the last few months to start redirecting shots to disadvantage countries. They did not because there is more money dolling them out in the US and selling them to the rest of the world. Donations are a loss of profit. This notion that the vaccines could not be redirected is a lie; they certainly could be and should be but they are not because saving lives globally is not the goal here. Rojo's article is fair and he could even add to the list of reasons to support Hocker. The shallow, simple minded, short-sightedness of the 2020 OCD crowd is prime right now.

who knew you were such an america-last global philanthropist

dfasfdsaf wrote:

Emergency approval is not the same. It hasn't gone through long term testing, so anyone who says, "I took the vaccine. I'm fine. You're an idiot for not getting it," literally has no idea what they are talking about...because NONE of us know the long term impact. I don't care if anyone gets the vaccine or not. I just know I'm not taking a vaccine, as a relatively young and healthy person, for a virus that has a low death rate, especially when there are potential serious health consequences with the vaccine that we already know about, let alone what could happen long-term. My point is, nobody should be forced to take it. If Hocker doesn't want to take it, he shouldn't have to, and people shaming him for not taking it need to piss off.

People pushing the EUA line should try to articulate what safety signal would be caught by waiting another... 6 months for full FDA approval from now.

The phase 3 trials were ~40k people. They did not catch myocarditis risk because it was so extremely rare. If we had forced the vaccines to get a year of safety data with the same trial size -- you wouldn't have caught it! All the severe side effects are within the first few days or a week or two. Demanding more of a wait would do nothing.

The only argument is that you are waiting for a very-low toxicity vaccine which is completely cleared from the body after a few weeks... to suddenly cause noticeable toxicity after a year+. There is no precedent for this.

As others have said, if you are this terrified of unprecedented hidden long-term effects, why not freak out about COVID, which has proven medium-long term effects even in healthy adults at rates much higher than severe reactions to the COVID vaccine. The delta variant effectively assures that you WILL get COVID if you remain unvaccinated and don't hide in your house, so you can't hide behind population immunity either.

You can't play the "long-term effects" card without ensnaring yourself in COVIDs rather poor long-term effect profile.

Lead Foil Hat XXIV wrote:

Quote Post wrote:

+1

There is not one old person who has not gotten the vaccine because a young person has. Not one. NOT ONE

This is BS, the US government and the vaccine producers could have been working hard the last few months to start redirecting shots to disadvantage countries. They did not because there is more money dolling them out in the US and selling them to the rest of the world. Donations are a loss of profit. This notion that the vaccines could not be redirected is a lie; they certainly could be and should be but they are not because saving lives globally is not the goal here. Rojo's article is fair and he could even add to the list of reasons to support Hocker. The shallow, simple minded, short-sightedness of the 2020 OCD crowd is prime right now.

Relatively smart for a moron.

Whether or not the vaccines should be deployed differently has nothing to do with whether or not a young, healthy American should get a vaccine. These things are not related. Cole would not be taking someone else’s vaccine. It’s not a zero sum game. Please people use your brains

dfasfdsaf wrote:

Emergency approval is not the same. It hasn't gone through long term testing, so anyone who says, "I took the vaccine. I'm fine. You're an idiot for not getting it," literally has no idea what they are talking about...because NONE of us know the long term impact. I don't care if anyone gets the vaccine or not. I just know I'm not taking a vaccine, as a relatively young and healthy person, for a virus that has a low death rate, especially when there are potential serious health consequences with the vaccine that we already know about, let alone what could happen long-term. My point is, nobody should be forced to take it. If Hocker doesn't want to take it, he shouldn't have to, and people shaming him for not taking it need to piss off.

I’ve used this argument with the crazed Covid fear mongers. They are not open to using common sense though.

One big problem with the vaccine is distribution.

The USA has more vaccine than it needs for all its residents. Other countries worldwide do not have enough vaccine, and no distribution network to get it to their people even if they had it.

It is similar to the problems with world hunger. There is potentially enough food in the world right now (or the easy ability to produce that food) to feed everyone in the world. The problem is distributing that food to everyone who needs it.

Vaccines that have already been allocated and distributed to a local US vaccination location are not going to be withdrawn anytime soon (if ever) and redistributed to be available elsewhere if not used in the US,

The can of beans at a local US store is not going to be pulled off the shelf and redistributed elsewhere if it is not purchased and eaten.

People like Mr. Hocker who have easy access to the vaccine right now should get vaccinated.

BOPA1 wrote:

Dictated this while driving, obviously I mean “you’re,” “herd,” and “like”

You are the biggest idiot in this whole thread. Get off your phone while driving.

Zero need for Cole to ever get the vaccine. Especially given that vaccinated athletes are still being quarantined.

That said. Rojo. Just don’t. Every time you try to argue a point you just sound foolish and pretty make the opposing argument seem correct. Imagine if your parents paid your way through law school.

I can’t wait to witness multiple people not understand this argument. It’s going to make my day.

rojo wrote:

The vitriol that some of you showed to Cole Hocker was disgusting and lacking in any scientific basis.

It spurred me to write a column. There are HUNDREDS of Millions of elderly and vulnerable people across the globe that aren't vaccinated who need it much more.

https://www.letsrun.com/news/2021/07/im-pro-vaccine-but-if-we-follow-the-science-we-wouldnt-be-encouraging-olympic-track-stars-like-cole-hocker-to-be-vaccinated/

I'm closing the old Hocker thread to comments.

While I agree with Rojo, this may be the day he gets deleted from Facebook. Just calling it first.

dfasfdsaf wrote:

Shaming anyone to get a vaccine that isn't FDA approved (and the long term effects aren't known) for a virus that has a 99.xx survival rate is insane to me.

You can’t use logic with the “selfish” shamers. My wife a hospital pharmacist refuses to get the vac. If you’re say 60+ and have lung issues then yeah it makes more sense to role the dice on big pharma covid experiments. If you’re afraid to get covid then go for the experiment. If not then it’s your choice to do what you want with your body. Isn’t that what liberals are all about?

dfasfdsaf wrote:

Emergency approval is not the same. It hasn't gone through long term testing, so anyone who says, "I took the vaccine. I'm fine. You're an idiot for not getting it," literally has no idea what they are talking about...because NONE of us know the long term impact. I don't care if anyone gets the vaccine or not. I just know I'm not taking a vaccine, as a relatively young and healthy person, for a virus that has a low death rate, especially when there are potential serious health consequences with the vaccine that we already know about, let alone what could happen long-term. My point is, nobody should be forced to take it. If Hocker doesn't want to take it, he shouldn't have to, and people shaming him for not taking it need to piss off.

If he wants to continue attending the University of Oregon he will have to get the vaccine before the Fall Semester begins.

Lead Foil Hat XXIV wrote:

Quote Post wrote:

+1

There is not one old person who has not gotten the vaccine because a young person has. Not one. NOT ONE

This is BS, the US government and the vaccine producers could have been working hard the last few months to start redirecting shots to disadvantage countries. They did not because there is more money dolling them out in the US and selling them to the rest of the world. Donations are a loss of profit. This notion that the vaccines could not be redirected is a lie; they certainly could be and should be but they are not because saving lives globally is not the goal here. Rojo's article is fair and he could even add to the list of reasons to support Hocker. The shallow, simple minded, short-sightedness of the 2020 OCD crowd is prime right now.

Your argument doesn’t work.

The US has shared vaccines.

The US has a plan to share more with other countries.

Stop rehashing Rojo’s false premise.

Another good reason to go pro and get away from the liberal propaganda.

young well hung Republican wrote:

Rojo usually I like you and your articles but you’re being moronic. Cole Hocker declining a vaccine doesn’t get it sent to India or any other country. It just gets wasted and thrown out.

I’m a fan of Cole Hocker and hopes he does well, but he’s also a moron for not getting the vaccine.

QFE. "Shipping his vaccine to a senior citizen in Mexico" is the same fallacy as "finish your dinner, there are starving children in Africa"; you can't magically feed your last piece of broccoli to a child in Africa, and you can't magically teleport a vaccine to Mexico. Distribution is a real problem, especially for a vaccine that has to be refrigerated continuously. And that's before $$$ and politics get in the way.

(Related story: when Dunkin came to certain Southeast Asian countries, they had to change their distribution strategy, where the donuts are made at central facilities and distributed to stores, because they didn't have refrigerated trucks. The donuts all went bad before they reached the stores. So they had to switch to shipping flour/sugar/eggs and making donuts on site at the stores.)

If the vaccine is "highly effective at protecting vaccinated people against Covid-19," then they are protected. End of story. It doesnt matter whether Cole Hocker or any other healthy individual is not vaccinated.