Coevett wrote:
Jake Wightman and Max Burgin are in the 800m.
Gonna get spanked by the polish - Dobek and Borkowski.
By the way, is it normal to have 14 runners in a single 800m heat?
If Cheptegei's fastest 1500 might be 3.32-33 at Monaco that means he still only runs 7.25 for the 3k, with the lowest possible differential splits that any top runner might perform over each 1500m. For Keino's wr it was a 15sec differential, and for El G - who missed the record - it was even greater. Of course, the narrower the differential - say, close to 10secs - the more it establishes doping. And Komen's record was doped.
It is said that Cheptegei will have three WR ‘s if he gets this. What if Kiplimo gets his 10000 record earlier tonight?
No that is not normal, but there is supposed to be two heats I think.
Armstronglivs wrote:
I actually quoted my comment in the post that you responded to and you still fail to understand it - as well as the other comment of mine you refer to. For all your mountains of words, you have to be the thickest poster on these boards.
My observation is not that 3.37 is Cheptegei's limit but that he has shown no ability to go sub-3.30, as Komen did, and unless he has that kind of speed he cannot run 7.20. Contrary to what your impaired brain tells you, it isnt simply a matter of endurance. No runner - no matter how doped - can put two 1500's together with a differential split of less than 10secs per 1500 as against their fastest possible 1500. It hasn't happened and it won't happen.
Ah -- there we go again -- I "still fail to understand".
I agreed with everything in your second quote, only commenting on the first one.
You have not disputed my comments, so I will assume you are in complete agreement.
I didn't say it was simply a matter of endurance -- so we agree there too.
Your 10 second differential rule is pure guesswork that cannot be applied if we don't have their fastest possible 1500m time, nor their fastest possible 3000m time.
Meanwhile, if you want to play with real numbers:
I found 5 athletes with a differential of less than 10 seconds: Bekele, Kipchoge, Mourhit, Alamirew, and Kipkosgei.
A 10 second differential from 3:37 is 7:37.
For perspective, Cheptegei averaged 7:33 in his 5000m world record.
rekrunner wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
I actually quoted my comment in the post that you responded to and you still fail to understand it - as well as the other comment of mine you refer to. For all your mountains of words, you have to be the thickest poster on these boards.
My observation is not that 3.37 is Cheptegei's limit but that he has shown no ability to go sub-3.30, as Komen did, and unless he has that kind of speed he cannot run 7.20. Contrary to what your impaired brain tells you, it isnt simply a matter of endurance. No runner - no matter how doped - can put two 1500's together with a differential split of less than 10secs per 1500 as against their fastest possible 1500. It hasn't happened and it won't happen.
Ah -- there we go again -- I "still fail to understand".
I agreed with everything in your second quote, only commenting on the first one.
You have not disputed my comments, so I will assume you are in complete agreement.
I didn't say it was simply a matter of endurance -- so we agree there too.
Your 10 second differential rule is pure guesswork that cannot be applied if we don't have their fastest possible 1500m time, nor their fastest possible 3000m time.
Meanwhile, if you want to play with real numbers:
I found 5 athletes with a differential of less than 10 seconds: Bekele, Kipchoge, Mourhit, Alamirew, and Kipkosgei.
A 10 second differential from 3:37 is 7:37.
For perspective, Cheptegei averaged 7:33 in his 5000m world record.
Only someone as stupid as you would assume that any comment I ignore I must therefore be agreeing with. Most of what you say requires being ignored.
You failed to see my further comment that Cheptegei may possibly be capable of a 3.32-33 for the 1500 at his peak and in the right conditions - although he has yet to beat 3.37. Hence, he may be capable of 7.25 if he is able to run to the same differential splits as Komen did - which was 11 secs slower for each 1500 split than his fastest 1500. Hence your 7.37 prediction based on a 3.37pr for the 1500 is irrelevant. It also explains how Cheptegei was able to run 7.33 during his 5k record.
The other runners you mention, like Bekele, were not 1500m runners and so their 1500 prs were not likely to be the best they were capable of. While the same applies to Cheptegei, I stand by my previous point that the 3k record requires speed as well as endurance and Cheptegei has yet to show that he has that kind of speed. The 3k is only a little more than half the distance of the 5k. Speed is crucial - even with Cheptegei's endurance. I do not see any runner who can't beat 3.30 for the 1500 taking Komen's record. Cheptegei won't be taking it in his so-called "record attempt", as he has ackowledged it is beyond him - as it has been beyond everybody.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Well,, wrote:
^This. I always felt that 3000m was the worst track distance. When a 1500 race starts to feel like sheer hell it´s only one lap left. In a 3k it´s 1,5k left.
You know that for the same runner, the 3000 is run at a slower pace than the 1500, right? By your logic, a 5000 would feel like sheer hell with 3.5K left.
You are not very bright. This has nothing to do with "logic". It´s about how you feel during a race. I feel exactly the same with one lap to go in a 1500 as I do halfway through a 3000. Tha t 3000 is run at a slower pace doesn´t mean that the second half is easier.
Excellent! Hopefully Komen is elevated to the realm of myth.
The legend lives on...
Armstronglivs wrote:
Only someone as stupid as you would assume that any comment I ignore I must therefore be agreeing with. Most of what you say requires being ignored.
You failed to see my further comment that Cheptegei may possibly be capable of a 3.32-33 for the 1500 at his peak and in the right conditions - although he has yet to beat 3.37. Hence, he may be capable of 7.25 if he is able to run to the same differential splits as Komen did - which was 11 secs slower for each 1500 split than his fastest 1500. Hence your 7.37 prediction based on a 3.37pr for the 1500 is irrelevant. It also explains how Cheptegei was able to run 7.33 during his 5k record.
The other runners you mention, like Bekele, were not 1500m runners and so their 1500 prs were not likely to be the best they were capable of. While the same applies to Cheptegei, I stand by my previous point that the 3k record requires speed as well as endurance and Cheptegei has yet to show that he has that kind of speed. The 3k is only a little more than half the distance of the 5k. Speed is crucial - even with Cheptegei's endurance. I do not see any runner who can't beat 3.30 for the 1500 taking Komen's record. Cheptegei won't be taking it in his so-called "record attempt", as he has ackowledged it is beyond him - as it has been beyond everybody.
It hardly matters what you agree with when you have not disputed, and/or cannot dispute, my responses.
None of your subsequent explanations explains or supports your initial use of "can't manage".
And your comment that Cheptegei may be capable of 3:32-3:33 suggests that he "can manage", and that the phrase "can't manage" doesn't apply -- in other words, you are in complete agreement.
With respect to your "10 second differential" rule, I agree we are unlikely to have accurate data for endurance type runners who don't run 1500m to their potential. For athletes like Geb, and Bekele, and El G, we can't even be sure that we have their best 3000m times.
Speed and endurance are both crucial -- still no disagreement here. There are other models we can use to calculate speed and endurance from two comparable times. If his 5000m and 10000m World Record performances are of comparable quality, we can solve these times and distances for speed and endurance. Using this solution predicts a 1500m time of 3:30.90 and a 3000m time of 7:19.89. This speed/endurance model strongly suggests a WR, at this early stage when not in WR shape, is not likely.
Interview with El Guerouj (Feb 21, 2019):
In 8:50 he answer to doping allegations answering a question from the journalist:
He say that 2001, the Australian Anti-doping organisation asked him about flacon B of his test for 25 years and gave them the right to reserve his test indefinitely.
He say that even if they find 0.001 of doubt about his tests he is ready to return all of what he won in his carrer.
Armstronglivs wrote:
If Cheptegei's fastest 1500 might be 3.32-33 at Monaco that means he still only runs 7.25 for the 3k, with the lowest possible differential splits that any top runner might perform over each 1500m. For Keino's wr it was a 15sec differential, and for El G - who missed the record - it was even greater. Of course, the narrower the differential - say, close to 10secs - the more it establishes doping. And Komen's record was doped.
Ritz ran 3:43/739. So he was a doper?
Kennedy 338/731. Another doper?
The kid at my hs school who ran 430/924 2 mile was also a doper?
Milers are normally like 15s. But distance guys being around 10s isn't abnormal
7:33.24
Remember regardless of whether Komen was clean or not he was a 3:29/3:46 guy. To break that record u have to have the speed as well. And why would he be able to do it now 10 weeks from the Olympics? He is probably still in heavy training until 3 or 4 weeks out from the games
Waiting for the kiwi ignoramus to come in and tell us he knew all along that Joshua wouldn't do it.
Obviously he will ignore the fact that Joshua himself said yesterday that he wasn't even thinking of getting the WR.
Awwww, your little savior proved to be a dud. An absolute nothing. Aren't you sad.
That's ok, leave to the fast guys to attack the 3k WR.
rekrunner wrote:
7:33.24
His PB was 7:33.26, from 2 years ago, so ... a new PB!
His 5000m WR pace is 7:33.22.
Bad Wigins wrote:
He can't do it.
Shoes have nothing to do with it. Venerable records started getting picked off years ago. Dibaba 1500. Ayana 10,000. Always by the one outlier athlete.
Now nothing's different, records still getting picked off. And still the one outlier, Gidey, Cheptegei. Only now it's "the shoes."
It's not shoes, it's the same thing it's always been, and that's why Cheptegei is already done. It wears off pretty quick and is hard to duplicate.
Called it.
If the shoes worked, they wouldn't quit after a year or two. They don't go through cycles.
5679 wrote:
Waiting for the kiwi ignoramus to come in and tell us he knew all along that Joshua wouldn't do it.
Obviously he will ignore the fact that Joshua himself said yesterday that he wasn't even thinking of getting the WR.
Actually I quoted Cheptegei in an earlier post of mine in which conceded he wouldn't take the record but you don't read very well so you didn't get it. But I didn't need to take his word for it - I knew it wasn't going to happen. So - only 13 seconds to go. But not bad for a runner who has yet to beat 3.37 for the 1500. Wrong part of his cycle, I guess.
ddidididid wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
If Cheptegei's fastest 1500 might be 3.32-33 at Monaco that means he still only runs 7.25 for the 3k, with the lowest possible differential splits that any top runner might perform over each 1500m. For Keino's wr it was a 15sec differential, and for El G - who missed the record - it was even greater. Of course, the narrower the differential - say, close to 10secs - the more it establishes doping. And Komen's record was doped.
Ritz ran 3:43/739. So he was a doper?
Kennedy 338/731. Another doper?
The kid at my hs school who ran 430/924 2 mile was also a doper?
Milers are normally like 15s. But distance guys being around 10s isn't abnormal
Only because they rarely run the shorter distance and to their full capacity. Ritzenhein would have been faster than 3.43 if he did.