Rojo says he might start a Kip Litton thread but only 1 and only 1 thread

Shame on U Mr. They be hatin' wrote:

I don't understand why those with the power don't get his ip address and nail the person who made that post. Seriously, that is going too far to just ignore a post like that or to even have the moderators delete it. Is someone going to look into it?

LOL we probably know who posted that.

They be hatin' wrote:

I happen to know for a fact that one of you crusaders is a registered sex offender. How bad is what Kip has done when compared to you?

Kip, do you have to keep trying to get the thread deleted? Moderators, don't fall for it!

I think what people are struggling with is assuming that whatever his method is - he used that method in all races.

If he used his brother--then how did he miss timing mats? --He didnt use an accomplice for those races.

Is there a progression--he missed some timing mats, and then he figured it out and didnt miss any more when he added an accomplice?

As to why are there no pictures of the accomplice onthe course - if his bib is hidden as well - or he has a different bib (or there is no bib) there is no need to look anythig like Kip - We wouldnt be looking for the accomplice in photos.

This has probably been done--but has anyone compared chip times at the splits to see if another runner has shown up with the same chips as splits more than once - if an accomplice is helping chip - maybe, just maybe, he's running the race on his own as well.

As far as the 2nd chip theory..

The thought on how he may have did it entered my head, and another poster touched on it. For the races with the shoe tags - not embedded in the bib, would this work?

He picks up his packet and another runner's packet - an alias 'who couldnt make the convention'. He goes to the station to verify the second chip - it reads someone else's name..he gets the person at the verification to enter his information for the 2nd chip? Would both chips work?

The second chip and second person theory are funny and interesting.

One reason for lack of mid race pictures besides not being there could be merely avoiding them. Typically the race photographer is crouched down at the side of the road (unless it is Boston and they are on some huge catwalk above you). If the road is sufficiently wide, you might be able to avoid the photo. Plus the person(s?) of interest are caught in the lost and found pictures at times.

Those photos of Rochester are the most compelling possibly for a second runner - different clothes, compression socks pulled up differently, shoes. Too weird. Note the repeatedly seen hike up of the shirt over a corner of the number at the finish - "The reveal"

Fell Runner wrote:

Back to the brothers theory, am I correct in thinking that people are saying that the lack of mid race photos is explained by there being two of them?

I struggle with this.

No. Lack of mid-race photos occurred primarily when only Kip ran. (But could also have occurred when both ran but only aimed to hit the timing mats and not run the whole course.)

Presence of mid-race photos with runners with different shoes, etc. occurred when both brothers ran.

The cheating didn't have to occur the same way for every race.

Based on everything we've been presented, I have no doubt Kip cheated. Given the variation of evidence and races, I have no doubt that various methods were needed/used.

If, and I'll say this is a very large IF since we don't have any firm evidence for it, Kip's brother is involved I doubt it was from the beginning. The thought of the two of them sitting down and deciding "Hey, lets go out and cheat at a bunch of marathons." seems highly unlikely. The though of Kip getting into the process, realizing he was going to a course that his initial methodology wouldn't work and then saying "Hey brother, I'm in a jam. Can you help me out?" becomes much more plausible.

Race detective wrote: "The cheating didn't have to occur the same way for every race."

That's been my belief also. I get the impression that Kip will do whatever it takes to "achieve" highly competitive age group times -- including the fabrication of races that do not exist.

In 2010 Vermont (VCM) used the B-Tag, not the D-Tag or ChampionChip. That rules out the idea of him having a personal chip for his shoe-either 2 copies that he owns/used or 1 Chip and then gets 1 from our race. I am going to check our records (if our Registration Director still has them) to see if it was requested to re-issue a bib for Litton. The bib number we have recorded in our results for him, and showing in the finish line pictures, is 1609. I could theoretically see it being possible that he was issued a 2nd bib, which his brother or another accomplice used to get to miles 10 and 13.1 as I_Am_Sorry states above.

I would like more info on how one goes about cloning a chip/bib. That is something I have not previously heard about or read about. I understand the theory and motivation behind someone doing this with a toll reader for a car, but I don't see the motivation or it being worth the trouble to do it for every race one goes to. Is it possible to build a cloning system that allows one to clone all kinds of chips; Champion, D-Tag, B-Tag, Ipico, Winning Time, J-Chip, etc? I honestly don't know enough about the technicalities of such a proposal-anyone know?

What I_Am_Sorry wrote above in terms of how he pulled it off at VCM would explain why we have no photos of Litton at the 9 mile mark on Church St.

JUST a little chat wrote:

I am 6'3" 215 lbs so I should be able to leave a "lasting impression" on him.

Oh this gonna be fun...

Are there 2 of you?

As for the credibility of "I am sorry", does anyone remotely believe he is actually sorry?

Would someone who is sorry troll this thread, put up fake Facebook pages, enter Boston Marathon on a fake time? I could go on and on and on but really do I have to ?

And no for the millionth time, I don't buy the brother story until I see pictures of him out on the course where the missing Kip ones are. I was a bit staggered that one person thought that the reason we don't see them is that we don't know who we are looking for - doh ! Isn't the whole premise that its someone who can pass for Kip?

How do we know "Study of K.Litton Running" is not Kip himself. And how do we not know Kip (aka SOKLR) has made this whole thing up including those fake e-mails. Not one of those people have a legit e-mail?

SOKLR@hotmail.com

.

Come on man... SOKLR, you want us to buy this?

Kent Litton just accepted my Facebook friends request. How can we use this to our advantage?

Fell, why would the accomplice neccesarily have to try to pass as Kip if he's hiding his bib? The whole point is to get the chip across the mat in a reasonable time. They aren't taking pictures right at the mat.

Now, if when became aware of the issue of people scouring through pictures it would make sense to have a doppleganger..although I dont think they'd overlook a red bandana or different hat as a dead giveaway.

by not posting about the accepted friend request on this board.

Why does kip's dental website and facebook profile have a picture of him aged ~18 yrs (from the early 1980s I would guess)? Bizarre!

doubler wrote:

Fell, why would the accomplice neccesarily have to try to pass as Kip if he's hiding his bib? The whole point is to get the chip across the mat in a reasonable time. They aren't taking pictures right at the mat.

Now, if when became aware of the issue of people scouring through pictures it would make sense to have a doppleganger..although I dont think they'd overlook a red bandana or different hat as a dead giveaway.

Because the whole accomplice thing was proposed as a twin which was a troll which then became his brother with emphasis on how alike they look with speculation about whether certain photos ostensibly of kip were actually his brother. Now somehow this has become any anonymous person. Call me strange but I call BS.

No, it wasn't Kip and I swear on my daughter's life.

I wasn't calling for the thread to be deleted, just that the person who said they know for a fact that there is a sex offender on this thread should be found and exposed. Don't know where the confusion came into play, but I never called for the thread to be deleted or even his post. I am pissed that someone is accusing someone on this thread of being on the sex offender list and unless it's true, they should be in big trouble. I am amazed that it doesn't bother anyone else. I have kids and I don't think it's even remotely funny.

That is quite a statement to make even though the person who made the post may or may not be Kip as I wouldn't have a clue. I posted in response to that post. I hope this clears the air and ironically I live in Michigan, Macomb County to be more precise.

Kip - "Hey brother, let's run a marathon this fall!"

Bro - "Nah, that's too hard, I'm not in shape."

Kip - "Fine, we can do it as a relay."

Bro - "Really?"

Kip - "Well, they don't have a relay at this race but we can still do it."

Bro - "Won't we get DQed or thrown off the course for trying that?"

Kip - "No, we just have to wear the same clothes and no one will be able to tell."

A year later

Kip - "Hey, let's do another relay. You could help me get the Boston time. I want to run 2:55." ...

It's not hard to think up reasonable excuses for the brothers to run together. Again, they didn't do it for all of the races, just a few.

The brother's facebook is obviously a fake. I could see a reason why at some point it would have become beneficial to have an accomplice look like the same person. If pulled off and they successfully relayed the course the photos would 'prove' the race legit.

But in order to just hit all the mats to make a result look legit and not raise suspicions of an RD, there is zero reason why the accomplice would need to look like Kip.