To d2xccoach:
Your Vermont course was very easy to cheat. It was easy to navigate between mats because we didn't have to. I started the race & then jogged straight to mile 20. My brother was waiting at mile 10 & ran to the halfway mat. At the right time I easily ran downhill from mile 20 to the finish. All this could not have been easier, once we made a duplicate of the chip.
Sorry,
KL
Looks like freedom of speech isn't so free anymore:
does anyone know about this one? http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011/01/sarasota-half-marathon-2009-sarasota.html
Careful with that ax wrote:
Looks like freedom of speech isn't so free anymore:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2011110280378
Your post is misleading. Free speech has never included the right to defame someone. The court's ruling is perfectly reasonable. The blogger allegedly said that Cooley school officials are criminals who committed fraud. Why shouldn't the blogger's name be revealed in a defamation suit brought by Cooley?
are you trying to suggest that Litton's going to file a defamation suit?
haha yo (cut da check) wrote:
are you trying to suggest that Litton's going to file a defamation suit?
I'm not suggesting that at all, but "Careful with that Ax" was making that point or at the very least, trying to scare people.
From the article (bold added):
"That rule says that in order to forfeit the constitutional right of free speech and to be sued and named in a suit, it must be proven that the statements made were defamatory and false and hurtful."
In my opinion it would be IMPOSSIBLE for Kip to prove all of the allegations are false. He has been DQ'd for cheating. He's been given a chance to explain/refute the evidence repeatedly by RD's etc, and has said nothing.
It's my recollection that the SOKLR blog has made a point of only ever talking about race cheating, not generalizations of character and extensions into the rest of Kip's life.
the statements about Kip Litton may have (unfortunately) been hurtful, but they are true
2:03 chip differential for a 1400 person race means he started at the back with his bib hidden as usual.
Is this another photo?...
http://www.runphotos.com/packages.cfm?race_id=147&file_name=LostandFound/L64A_1967.JPG
The Sarasota Marathon/Half marathon is a mid sized race - 600 in the marathon, 1500 in the half. Oddly, I believe it was in 2009 where the woman who finished first in the marathon was DQ'd for cheating (she cut about 2 miles out citing a porta potty incident - there is a thread on letsrun about it)
The half is thin at the front and rapidly spaces out. There were no timing mats that yr. The course could easily be cut. It's out and back. Both races go off at the same time. The first 4 miles go thru a neighborhood full of side streets. The start is pitch black at 6 am which is a common criticism of the race. You finish the half barely at sun-up. One could easily just run the first couple miles and wait around in that neighborhood somewhere and then jump back in the race at the end if you wanted to.
The lost and found picture is at the end near the finish on a concrete path in the Ringling Museum area where the start and finish are. The person pictured in wearing the same Boston Marathon shorts in both the lost and found and official finish picture but only at the finish is the number showing. Will leave it to your imagination as to why.
Flordia Midtimer wrote:
The Sarasota Marathon/Half marathon is a mid sized race - 600 in the marathon, 1500 in the half. Oddly, I believe it was in 2009 where the woman who finished first in the marathon was DQ'd for cheating (she cut about 2 miles out citing a porta potty incident - there is a thread on letsrun about it)
The DQ'd woman is from Brighton, MI. She continued to deny she cheated so I posed some questions to her - and she answered all of them very badly. I had the unpleasant task of telling her supporters she had, indeed, cheated. She had also very likely cheated in 2 other MI marathons previous to Sarasota. Interestingly, she's a competent runner and triathlete.
it's not nearly as bad as what Kipling did.
And Is Kip still on the list at the Minnesota indoor track marathon in January? I think it's like one of those races where they change directions after a certain number of minutes (all indoors). It might be a good opportunity to find out some things...
"This is a 150 lap race where every lap time is recorded by your personal time keeper."
I wonder if that is personal in the sense that the runner provides their own? If so what could possibly go wrong?
Fell Runner wrote:
http://www.marathonguide.com/races/racedetails.cfm?MIDD=2641080113"This is a 150 lap race where every lap time is recorded by your personal time keeper."
I wonder if that is personal in the sense that the runner provides their own? If so what could possibly go wrong?
No doubt the Baxter will count laps for the Kipster.
Junk Master wrote:
Meanwhile keep the pressure on Kippy Let'srunners. Continue to contact as many people close to him as possible.
No, don't contact anyone close to him. Regardless of what you think of Kip and what he has done, the "people close to him" haven't done anything wrong, and shouldn't be harassed.
Chuck Matthews wrote:
I find this entire discussion absolutely fascinating. It is like an old fashioned mystery that is just begging to be solved. It looks like we are assembling a team with a clue here and a clue there from across the USA. It is like a jigsaw puzzle that is starting to come together.
The last pieces of the puzzle have come together for me with a few key posts in the past two weeks, with some research going back to posts from January. This will be a long post so bear with me.
The summary of all this is confirmation of what I’ll call the ‘brother accomplice theory’ which was suggested first by ‘narf’ back on 1/11/11 (p. 13, 2:34 pm)”
“…has anyone brought up the possibility of a twin brother Litton? I mean, he'd probably be named Kim or Ken or something.”
‘Florida oldtimer’ then added “There is a Kurt Litton that ran Crim in 2005 and 2007. From Michigan.” Additional posts discuss that they appear related, but not twins.
They are related, and are brothers, not twins. The Crim race results show Kurt’s city. I found an internet article about Kurt’s business identifying him from that same city which includes a quote from Kurt referencing his “dentist brother”. (Note: as the article is about Kurt’s business I am choosing not to link it here and recommend similarly not link it. It is easily found by searching; article is from 2007.) From the 2007 Crim 10 Mile race results, it is seen that Kurt is 3 years younger than Kip.
http://results.active.com/uploads/txt/47395.txtNow back to the recent posts that led me to re-explore this angle. On 10/21 (p. 108, 3:39 pm), “No mystery” wrote: “only read a few pages of this thread & yes, I already solved the "how" part. For those of you that guessed he has an accomplice that looks like him, you were almost right- he has an accomplice that looks EXACTLY like him- his twin brother! His brother is a pretty damn good runner also (obviously), although he doesn't run races "officially". His name is Kent and he is on Facebook.…
I am certain this post was from Kip himself and was intended as a red herring with regard to who his brother was, and perhaps to get us to ‘ridicule’ the accomplice idea instead of seeing it as the truth. There were 4 days of posts after this which got deleted. Almost immediately after posting was allowed to resume, the first of two posts (thus far) by ‘I am sorry’ appeared. I am convinced that these are indeed from Kip. Something must have happened which caused him to realize that he had to start answering our questions. The first of these posts (p. 108, 10/25, 2:30 pm), was a mild apology without any specifics: “I am sorry. What more do you want?....“ Shortly after this, the Vermont City Marathon race director (‘d2xccoach’, who had a long post on p. 94 about the VCM course) replied (p. 109, 10/26, 9:22 am), asking how Kip cheated in the 2010 VCM. 3 days later, there was finally a reply from ‘I am sorry’ (p. 114, 10/29, 11:29 am). “To d2xccoach: Your Vermont course was very easy to cheat. It was easy to navigate between mats because we didn't have to. I started the race & then jogged straight to mile 20. My brother was waiting at mile 10 & ran to the halfway mat. At the right time I easily ran downhill from mile 20 to the finish. All this could not have been easier, once we made a duplicate of the chip. Sorry, KL”
(cont.)
(cont. from previous post)
And suddenly this entire thread and Kip’s m.o. fully made sense. If there were two people running, one with a cloned chip, trying to make it look like one person ran the race – this solves everything. Races where it would have been difficult or impossible for just one person to hit all the timing mats – solved. Running with caps and sunglasses – solved (obscures slight facial and hair length differences). Different shoes – solved (they didn’t think this detail would get captured and noticed in photos). Number not showing at the start or in mid-race photos – solved (they only had race number, so best for the one person who had it to conceal it until revealing it for the approach to the finish line).
The final piece of the puzzle for me was finding confirmation that this scenario -- at least the part about Kurt playing the role of accomplice -- HAD been done. This piece came from the photo linked by “Kyp Lyttyn” (p. 114, 10/29, 7:10 pm), showing a race photo for ‘Kip’ in the 2009 Sarasota Half Marathon race:
http://www.runphotos.com/packages.cfm?race_id=147&file_name=LostandFound/L64A_1967.JPG
A photo of the runner at the finish line is given here:
http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011/01/sarasota-half-marathon-2009-sarasota.html
The runners are dressed the same, but the finish line photo is of Kip, while the earlier photo is … Kurt. That it is Kurt can be seen by comparing the image to a picture of him appearing in the 2007 web article about Kurt which I mentioned previously. (Note also that unless lighting is a factor, the sunglasses worn by Kurt and Kip are different.)
This discovery also resolves an early puzzle in this saga. The photo of ‘Kip’ at the finish of the 2010 B.A.A. 5K doesn’t look like other images of Kip. The runner clearly looked younger. I now see why … it is Kurt (3 years younger than Kip).
A final note to give credit to others where it is due:
1) The possibility of a cloned chip was presented much earlier in this thread. ‘Speculation’ (p. 32, 1/13/11, 8:08 pm) proposed such an explanation for how Kip could have cheated at the 2010 Boston Marathon. He thought it might have been Kip’s friend Ben, but Kip’s similar looking brother Kurt makes far more sense.
2) ‘Dan the Masters Man’ (p. 33, 1/13/11, 9:59 pm) speculated on Kurt being involved, referring to the 2007 Crim 10-miler which both Kip and Kurt ran. He pointed out that Kurt himself showed similar behaviors at this race (6 min start delay, midway split missing; not sweating at the finish). One last point – he mentions a brightroom.com finish line photo of Kurt (Bib 8073) at this race – if anyone can find it, that would be of interest.
"they only had race number" - should be "they only had one race number (bib)"
At first reading Race detective's recent post I thought it was unbelievable, but now I think this theory has some legs. If you compare SOKLR 2010 BAA Marathon pictures of Kip in two different outfits captured by Jim Rhodes Photos and Marathonfoto.com (SOKLR has them side by side) you can see sublte differences. The Jim Rhodes image has hair sticking out between the ear and baseball cap and deeper facial lines on either side of the nose.
