Buffalo Billy wrote:
Who really cares?
The contributors and readers of this thread and people who care about fair play. If you aren't bothered or don't see the point then go elsewhere.
Buffalo Billy wrote:
Who really cares?
The contributors and readers of this thread and people who care about fair play. If you aren't bothered or don't see the point then go elsewhere.
Study of K.Litton Running wrote:
Also, guys, I just received this email today from someone purporting to be a neighbor of Kip Litton's. I'm copying and pasting it below.
"Hi,
I’m a neighbor of Kip Litton (literally live less than ¼ mile from him, same subdivision). So I see him run in/out of the sub on a regular basis. Although we share the same interest of running, that’s about it. Recently I received an email from him inquiring about a marathon in Wisconsin that he mistakenly thought I ran annually. He thought I ran the WhislteStop marathon in Ashland, WI, however I regularly run the Lakefront Marathon in Milwaukee. That being said, he wrote “I wanted to ask you a few questions about the WhistleStop Marathon. If you have a chance could you call me tonight or one of the next couple evenings? Thanks. - Kip Litton”. At first I ignored his email as I’m not really friends with him as he had previously insulted my father-in-law by mocking him like a high school sophomore after my father-in-law asked him about his Boston Marathoner Finisher jacket that Kip was wearing while both where dining at a local restaurant.
When I told my wife about the email, she got curios and googled him and saw all the news about his running “style”. She passed on the web sites and I quickly read as much as I could. I did not respond to his emails until later that week after he dropped off an envelope in my mailbox asking the same. He’s obviously determined to get some answers. I responded with a brief email stating that I’ve never run the WhistleStop but have run Milwaukee’s Lakefront which was already sold out for 2011. He thanked me and that was the end of our correspondence. I’m speculating he wanted to know where timing mats were placed and where photographers were situated. Again, just speculation.
Regarding all the allegations about his running “style” and DQs from races, I believe them. I once respected him for his running “talent”, but now believe he is a cheat and a scam based on the incident with my father-in-law, the other subdivision encounters and his arrogance (now much deflated). If I were a race director, I’d DQ him from a race unless he’s documented in photos. Others I talk to in the neighborhood are aware of his cheating exploits and I am spreading the word encouraging those that are unaware to look him up on the web.
Kip can run, and he bikes a lot to cross train. I’m speculating that he may get to the next timing mat by biking, posing as a race volunteer that rides the course monitoring runner’s physical condition. He also bikes with a neighbor, regularly going out on 50+ mile rides in an afternoon, several times a week. So he is capable, but probably of 3:15 to 3:20 marathons.
You may use the facts of this email in your blog, no names please. If you want more information about him, call on my number listed below."
Thanks for your efforts SOKLR, you should get royalties. That said, I don’t believe the email from the alleged neighbor of Kip. First, I have a hard time believing that a 50 year old professional would be mocking his neighbor’s relative right to his face (and nice touch adding that Kip was wearing a Boston marathon jacket). Next, why would Kip send an email to the neighbor saying he wanted to ask questions by phone? Why not just ask the questions in the email (is it a fast course, is it accessible by car/bike, where do they place the chip mats)? Next, the alleged neighbor tells his wife, who becomes curious and googles Kip. Really? She googles a neighbor because Kip wanted to ask her husband about a race? And how convenient, her search leads to LetsRun (or SOKLR).
Florida midtimer wrote:
Also bayshore 2009, 2:52. Results indicate a precise tie for first the the ag with bib number 1461. Only photos at finish. notice the shirt (Boston attire as usual) pulled up asymmetrically over the number (who knows when it was, quite possibly at the finish only). The other guy who finished in a virtual tie is not in the finish picture with the person of interest. Likely inidicates, the lag in start time. The other guy has loads of photos throughout the course. fyi.
http://www.backprint.com/view_user_event.asp?PID=bp%18yG&EVENTID=50179&PWD=&LAST=litton&DIVISION=&BIB=400
Results from that same race, finished 21st:
http://www.marathonguide.com/results/browse.cfm?MIDD=513090523&Gen=M&Begin=1&End=100&Max=825Notice difference between Net and Gun time, nearly 3 minutes. People around him, only 5-15 seconds off. What the hell was he doing for those 3 minutes? No one else in the top 1000 had a 3 minute difference.
That's a hell of a lot of people to pass to finish under 3 hours.
Even every runner on the LAST page of the 2009 Bayshore has less chip gun differential.
Guys, the same was true at vermont city marathon where I noticed some old ladies and walkers crossed the starting line before kip did, yet Kip ran through tons of people to come thru the 10mile mark in approx 62minutes (6:20pace). We have a youtube video of the start and I have no clue how he managed to get through in 62mins.
Someone suggested that these charity fundraisers like Kip all start far back because they get paid based on how many runners they pass, but Kip's times just aren't possible. I've said it before that by starting after everyone else, the other LEGIT top finishers never know KIP LITTON comes in as a top finisher until the timing company spits out the full computerized results, where they get all get screwed out of awards at the post-race festivities. It is at these post-race festivities that the legitimate road racers lining up to see the computerized results and post-race awards find out that some unknown character (Kip Litton) nabbed them from awards and came in, for example, 40th place out of 3500 at BAA 5k (a race Josh Cox won) all despite a 4min4sec chip/gun difference, or top master at Rochester (prize money, or sub3 at south dakota (where he was DQ'ed). According to ouch, Kip was supposed to take home a wine and a gift certificate of some sort for his 249 finish at Missoula but he never showed up at awards and of course he got DQed anyway once they reviewed photos and video.
I will try to add Bayshore to the clickable map along with the Crim 10miler. Looks like at least 4 dots in Michigan (3 of them red dot DQs, the 1 blue dot that's not a DQ but strong suspicion - Bayshore marathon where he ran 2:52)
I don't have any good evidence on PF Chang Arizona 2010 as the photos don't show much. He does walk across the finish though (youtube vid I posted) and has a large chip/gun differential, and Knowing what I know about him you can guess what I think.
About new mexico in 2009, I did hear from someone at New Mexico who said Kip cheated there and never passed him so that's why I have that one down as a blue strong suspicion dot and kip also has a chip/gun differential of like 45secs there, and also Kip came in 2nd overall running close to the fastest he's ever come across the line in at 5000ft altitude (albuquerque, new mexico. You and I know that you're not going to run a marathon that fast at 5000ft altitude if your PR isn't even under 2:50. Of course Kip also came across in a 2:49 at Vermont City but for the reasons I mentioned above I don't believe it.
I thought I remember people mentioning Bay Shore in the initial list of races that seemed suspicious in the first few pages. Bay Shore is a very small race up in Traverse City, MI. 3 minutes differential is impossible unless you missed the start time, and arrived minutes late (very implausible considering how "geared up" he is). Also, a very easy course to cheat if you wanted. Step off. Drive miles down the road and then reappear in the big gaps near the front.
http://dev.bayshoremarathon.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=56
The guy is a total fraud, and should be exposed. It isn't an issue about whether he took someone's medal or couple of bucks. People train hard to race. There is a certain amount of integrity and honor you show to honestly give your effort. You don't need a certain marathon qualifying time to be able to be appalled by his behavior.
Action Sports Images managed to capture other marathoners at several locations throughout the course. Here's a perfect example--
But ACI cameras recorded KL only on the track at the finish. Love that Boston Marathon garb. Very impressive!
I am new to let's run and was hoping someone could explain what this board is about. Will this Kip chap help me run faster kilometers?
It seems like people know where he is entered and going to run next. Why doesn't a local just run with him and shadow him. Kind of creepy I guess but it would end all speculation wouldn't it?
Newto Letsrun wrote:
I am new to let's run and was hoping someone could explain what this board is about. Will this Kip chap help me run faster kilometers?
Welcome - This is probably the best place to start.
http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011/01/update-discussion-on-history.htmlthanks to Ouch1000 of Montana for this piece.
Why not try this? wrote:
It seems like people know where he is entered and going to run next. Why doesn't a local just run with him and shadow him. Kind of creepy I guess but it would end all speculation wouldn't it?
simple - the problem is it's very difficult to find him at the starting line because he pretty much wears long sleeves and pants clothing with no bib showing, hat, and sunglasses and starts somewhere in the back.
also, ever since this thread blew up, Kip has hardly raced at all. We've been told he got in a car accident and may never run again (according to his friend Dan Baxley) but Kip is reported to be on the waiting list at a Minnesota indoor track marathon coming up and also Kip is registered at the 2012 Boston Marathon.
Why not try this? wrote:
It seems like people know where he is entered and going to run next. Why doesn't a local just run with him and shadow him. Kind of creepy I guess but it would end all speculation wouldn't it?
Imagine trying to find him at Boston.
Why not try this? wrote:
It seems like people know where he is entered and going to run next. Why doesn't a local just run with him and shadow him. Kind of creepy I guess but it would end all speculation wouldn't it?
Something else to think about is, even if you did find him at a race, if he saw someone with a camera or whatever he would probably just walk of the course and not even "run."
The key to getting him actually caught cheating is get him actually walking or whatever off the course.
Considering how many races he has been DQed from, that might not stop him either.
Bayshore's 2009 results lists Litton as as 21st finisher overall. And according to timing data NONE of the men in the top 10 were able to manage a negative split that day. The average second half for finishers 1 thru 10 proved to be 2 min, 11 secs. SLOWER than their first. Yet Litton's second half was somehow 7 min, 28 secs FASTER than his first half. Where does he hide his bicycle?
http://results.active.com/pages/oneResult.jsp?pID=60454824&rsID=78791&pubID=3
Loofa Dog wrote:
Imagine trying to find him at Boston.
A task that will be beyond most of the race photographers.
Florida midtimer wrote:
Also bayshore 2009, 2:52. Results indicate a precise tie for first the the ag with bib number 1461. Only photos at finish. notice the shirt (Boston attire as usual) pulled up asymmetrically over the number (who knows when it was, quite possibly at the finish only). The other guy who finished in a virtual tie is not in the finish picture with the person of interest. Likely inidicates, the lag in start time. The other guy has loads of photos throughout the course. fyi.
http://www.backprint.com/view_user_event.asp?PID=bp%18yG&EVENTID=50179&PWD=&LAST=litton&DIVISION=&BIB=400
If only someone could get their hands on that garmin.
Thanks, just added full report for BayShore2009 5/23/2009 (Traverse City Michigan), will also add to map later
http://kiplitton.blogspot.com/2011/10/2009-bayshore-marathon-full-report.html
Hmmm well do you guys think he'll run the marathon that he was asking his neighbor about? Do you think he asked people beforehand about the marathons he's already done to see if they're cheatable, like he did with his neighbor?
I don't think we'll have a chance to actually follow him. I cannot see Kip trying to run another marathon and attempting to cheat in it either anytime soon
Rummaging through ASI's lost & found gallery for Bayshore Marathon 2009: there is no photographic evidence of Litton passing through Miles 16 or 18. Yes he can be seen at Mile 23 -- but even at this point he's still concealing his bib. I get no sense at all that Litton is actually moving at 6:19/mi. in this photo -- the pace the computer clocked him at during the entire second half of the race.
Sorry, it was not his neighbor, no way! When he gives his home address and name and it's verified, then I will "begin" to believe him.