YMMV wrote:
That track should be used for fast times more often; the infield trees keep wind at zero, and the psychology and atmosphere are clearly topnotch for fast running (not to mention it is their home track for training).
honestly that track should be a DQ in and of itself. i imagine if you built a track and put a huge artificial windbreak in the middle, people would call that into question. why is this any different?
But Tinman, guys...
Hoowie wrote:
Side note: can we comment on fvcking crazy that Moh Ahmed pacers this thing for 4000 meters lol
100% — guy’s a threat and has the experience
lest we forget wrote:
doot doot wrote:
So did Gault in making the point that a 12:58 and a 13:00 guy won’t be competing at Worlds.
What 13:00 guy won't be competing at Worlds?
13:00 > 27:30 ... it’s pretty clear that he’s much fitter than USAs but won’t be doubling cuz “leadership” fiasco
Bower Man wrote:
They are racing now because BTC just returned from, essentially, 3 consecutive months of altitude training. Living & doing long runs at 7000' and above (Park City), interval/repeat training at 4500' (BYU track). The full effects of that kind of stimulus on the body will still be present.
BTC has never spent that long at altitude, let alone racing so soon afterwards. Though only a sample size of 3, we'll see if the "live high - train low" model has had an effect on these guys.
Physiologists, take note. Tonight's race has the feel of a science experiment.
Altitude living and training is the only way to legally be able to run these set of times and compete with the dodgy Africans.
Bowerman has the resources to do it.
Very difficult to get in a race in North America where these times would be possible. Very difficult for a North American to get into. Diamond league race where these times are possible. Jerry is smart to have done this. Next year McGorty and Fisher will need a similar race with even fast pace in an electrifying environment that only Nike and Bowerman can provide.
I am sure people will be crying the blues, saying unfair this unfair that. Those same people have been the ones saying Jerry’s group doesn’t race etc and can’t look beyond their nose to realize Jerry’s group is running/racing on the international calendar.
Bowerman Grouo has done a masterful job. Their results late in the season (women and men) price that. It also proves all the armchair coaches in this message board don’t know what they are talking about.
Congratulations Bowerman athletes, Jerry and Nike. This performance reinforces that you are doing things right.
doot doot wrote:
Hoowie wrote:
Side note: can we comment on fvcking crazy that Moh Ahmed pacers this thing for 4000 meters lol
100% — guy’s a threat and has the experience
lest we forget wrote:
What 13:00 guy won't be competing at Worlds?
13:00 > 27:30 ... it’s pretty clear that he’s much fitter than USAs but won’t be doubling cuz “leadership” fiasco
So you were wrong and can't admit it. Got it.
It was obvious that Lopez was in outstanding shape and here you see the training group advantage, which tends to bring everyone along to close to the same place from training together, if they can stay healthy. Centro clearly hadn't realized his potential before in the 5000m with an early season 13:20 in the past but this is a leap for him that had to come in part from being late in the season and in part from the conditions and perfect setup but also from the very high workout volume Jerry has them do. Kincaid and Lopez also showed how absurd it was that they let the pace dawdle at nationals, costing Kincaid a spot on the team and costing Lopez a spot in the 5000m, which is probably his best event with his speed. It is great to see them all at 13 flat or below, a tremendous achievement even if totally set up with a perfect time trial but get to Europe to run the big ones and now Jerry has no excuse for not sending them because with these times they should qualify for plenty of the circuit 5's.
Why did Ahmed drop with only one lap to go? Even if he ran a 75 he would have finished in 13:13. He must already have the standard but you would think he would rather finish after going that far.
"MO Ahmed got them to 4600m at 11:58 and was running around cheering them last lap"
Hmm, run a race on a track in the woods with only a few people there, most of them employees of the company putting on the race. Keep it low key and that way no drug testing at the time trial.
Too be honest: As a non American I don´t know what "top PREP 2- milers" mean. But from Centro´s IAAF profile I can see that he has not run any fast 5000m for years. So I still think it looks strange that he in a season where his 1500m best is far from his PB suddenly runs 5000m in 13.
Mo was never in a race won faster than 12:53 once he went to Salazar. He ran that with Salazar in 2011. He was first in that race in Monaco. The next year he was first in Eugene in 12:56.98. In 2010 in August at Zurich he was fifth in 12:57 after some coaching by Renato Canova just prior to Salazar. He was first in each of his next best times until you get to 13:05, where he was 7th in 2010, again before Salazar. In 2013, he was second in 13:05 at Eugene, sick that day, I think. So, he never did get the super-fast race like Paris 2012 to destroy his pr. Neither did Rupp at his best. He was 3rd at Pre in 2012, less than 2 seconds behind Mo in first, in the 12:58 race. At St-Denis in 2014, he was 4th in 13 flat, a kicker's finish, in a race won by Edwin Soi in 12:59. He ran 13:01 at Brussels in 2013, a race won in 12:58.75 by Yenew Alamirew. Peak Rupp in 2012-13 would have run much faster in a race like Paris 2012.
Rupp = 12:49 wrote:
Hardloper wrote:
He got in tons of fast races and never went faster than 12:58.90
Mo Farah got in tons of fast races and never went faster than 12:53, but people think he could have run close to Bekele's record. Sad!
Do the woods create a pacer effect? Along with spectators creating a wind block as they stood all around the track. If so, these 5k times are no different than Kipchoges Sub 2 or 1:59 circuses.
zxcvzxcv wrote:
Mo was never in a race won faster than 12:53 once he went to Salazar.
He ran that with Salazar in 2011. He was first in that race in Monaco. The next year he was first in Eugene in 12:56.98.
In 2010 in August at Zurich he was fifth in 12:57 after some coaching by Renato Canova just prior to Salazar.
He was first in each of his next best times until you get to 13:05, where he was 7th in 2010, again before Salazar.
In 2013, he was second in 13:05 at Eugene, sick that day, I think.
So, he never did get the super-fast race like Paris 2012 to destroy his pr. Neither did Rupp at his best. He was 3rd at Pre in 2012, less than 2 seconds behind Mo in first, in the 12:58 race. At St-Denis in 2014, he was 4th in 13 flat, a kicker's finish, in a race won by Edwin Soi in 12:59. He ran 13:01 at Brussels in 2013, a race won in 12:58.75 by Yenew Alamirew.
Peak Rupp in 2012-13 would have run much faster in a race like Paris 2012.
Rupp = 12:49 wrote:
Mo Farah got in tons of fast races and never went faster than 12:53, but people think he could have run close to Bekele's record. Sad!
Peak Rupp had plenty of fast races to try to better his 12:58.
ohia wrote:
YMMV wrote:
That track should be used for fast times more often; the infield trees keep wind at zero, and the psychology and atmosphere are clearly topnotch for fast running (not to mention it is their home track for training).
honestly that track should be a DQ in and of itself. i imagine if you built a track and put a huge artificial windbreak in the middle, people would call that into question. why is this any different?
Shall we "DQ" every indoor track while we are at it?
Centro: Wins Olympic 1500
LRC: "Crappy race! 3:50 is a high school time!"
Centro: 13:00
LRC: "NOT a race! Doesn't count!"
zxcvzcvx wrote:
Jerry has no excuse for not sending them...
Give it time man.
With fewer 5ks going forward it will take a small miracle for the events to align with the BT(W & TT)C training schedule. Why travel all the way to Europe to maybe run 13:07 for 5th place when they could just pull out the car seats and carpool 20 minutes to beautiful Michael Johnson Track for guaranteed top-10 US AT marks? Less stress. Less hassle. Faster marks. Same pay. Win^4.
Jgt11 wrote:
I wasn't counting him out, but this totally puts Centro in sub 3:30 shape with a good shot at a world medal.
you have a weird brain to automatically think that converts.
Da Truth Da Truth wrote:
Do the woods create a pacer effect? Along with spectators creating a wind block as they stood all around the track. If so, these 5k times are no different than Kipchoges Sub 2 or 1:59 circuses.
No difference? None at all? Despite acknowledging that the Sub-2:00 and INEOS 1:59 challenges are non-eligible *actual* tests of human ability it is the exact same as counting a shady time trial on a literally shady track to qualify for the Olympics?
Yeah lopping 3 minutes off the next fastest athlete in history’s former WR and re-attempting 9+ seconds off his own record-eligible time is the same as running 20-seconds slower than the 5k WR (where the last 2k was done the hard way... solo)
Especially since just a handful of seconds separate the fastest eligible times for a 26.2-mile race for anyone not named Eliud Kipchoge.
This thread proves that Letsrunner are never satisfied with any result.
To think that they didn't go through necessary steps to get certified Olympic Qualifier results is ridiculous. What would be the point of all of that effort?!
Just be excited about some fast USA 5,000m times OR stay away from the keyboard.
doot doot wrote:
Da Truth Da Truth wrote:
Do the woods create a pacer effect? Along with spectators creating a wind block as they stood all around the track. If so, these 5k times are no different than Kipchoges Sub 2 or 1:59 circuses.
No difference? None at all? Despite acknowledging that the Sub-2:00 and INEOS 1:59 challenges are non-eligible *actual* tests of human ability it is the exact same as counting a shady time trial on a literally shady track to qualify for the Olympics?
Yeah lopping 3 minutes off the next fastest athlete in history’s former WR and re-attempting 9+ seconds off his own record-eligible time is the same as running 20-seconds slower than the 5k WR (where the last 2k was done the hard way... solo)
Especially since just a handful of seconds separate the fastest eligible times for a 26.2-mile race for anyone not named Eliud Kipchoge.
99+* seconds (for the pedants)
american goat wrote:
Lofty Goals wrote:
I think it’s physiologically impossible to run 3:50 and 26:44 yet only be in 12:58 shape. If you want to trash Rupp you can blame his mindset or something, but he was obviously fit enough to run faster
+1, he also ran 7:30. He had at worst a 12:53 in his legs, no question.
Where does that put Rupp on the all-time list of the best times people might have run if they just applied themselves? Ahead of Kincaid?
The 1968 Olympic Trials were held at a similar facility but at altitude to simulate Mexico City