Heps Cross Country 2011

are injured/slow/retired runners partying on Friday night in Princeton?

narp wrote:

are injured/slow/retired runners partying on Friday night in Princeton?

Forgive me, but I have difficulty comprehending the words "partying" and "Princeton" in the same sentence. I've spent time at/in Princeton and--while I'll duly acknowledge the possibilities of getting drunk there (as anywhere else)--just can't associate it with the concept of a "party."

In any case, maybe having a little less partying in their lives could help the injured/slow runners become less injured/slow. Just a snarky thought...

Cornell held its annual Reif Memorial meet on Friday:

http://cornellbigred.com/news/2011/10/21/MXC_1021112532.aspx

It was announced that the top three Cornell men's finishers in the five-mile race would make the squad for Heps; the women's and the rest of the men's (likely) Heps competitors were held out of the meet.

This fall's persistent rainy conditions once again forced Cornell to abandon the Gorge and use the same makeshift courses on which they hosted Army at the beginning of the season. Meanwhile, early forecast for next week in Princeton, NJ, projects the possibility of rain on Wednesday and Thursday and Friday, with sun on Saturday.

Anyone know where Tom Poland is running his 5th year this year?

Didn't take his 5th year.

I'll be there. Going to my first college XC meet ever. Hope it's a good one.

Any ideas on who top frosh will be? Eddie Owens?

Sam Pons? Or someone else?

And I hope the women's race comes down to the wire.

C/M Runner wrote:

Any ideas on who top frosh will be? Eddie Owens?

Sam Pons? Or someone else?

I'd have to go with Eddie Owens as top freshman. The top Ivy freshmen distance recruits would have had to be Owens, Pons at Princeton and Orman at Harvard, but neither Pons nor Orman ran at Wisconsin - don't know why in either case, but if I were placing a bet, just based on that, I'd have to go with Owens.

What are they putting in the water in Philly? Penn men have no one under 26 minutes for 8k this year?? Are their women any better? Kovach was all-american last year, correct?

ivyspectator wrote:

What are they putting in the water in Philly? Penn men have no one under 26 minutes for 8k this year?? Are their women any better? Kovach was all-american last year, correct?

Penn is coming around on the women's side:

It's Blake Boldon's first season as cross-country coach for the men and women at Penn. They'll almost certainly see progress through the course of the year, and from one year to the next. Realistically/historically, it's easier to turn around a women's team than a men's--female frosh can often contribute right away--so it would make sense that the Penn women would be more representative at Heps. Oh, and yes, Kovach was a track all-American: 5,000 outdoors.

I see four (at least four) women's teams with an excellent shot at the podium--at *any* spot on the podium. As a tiebreaker, I guess I'd have to go with the home team, but I think the overall title contest could be pulsatingly close. I find it interesting that apparently a fair number of female competitors (from multiple schools) will be making their seasonal debuts, at least at the varsity level. Tough to put together a form chart.

As far as men's teams on Saturday, is anybody picking against Princeton? I just can't see it...even though Columbia, at least, is excellent this year. Who'll fill the other podium spot?

www.dsdhldsh wrote:

Princeton will win Heps even easier than they did last year.

They have a legit 1 2 3 4 5 punch

1 Cabral (1st in 2010)

2 Leung (5th in 2010)

3 Speare (11th in 2009 didn't run in 2010)

4 Kaulbach (13th in 2010)

5 Arroyo Yamin (21st in 2010)

Dartmouth will be Princeton's closest competition but with Princeton's depth and incoming freshman class they will be hard to beat.

I was at the Princeton tent after the Wisconsin race. Even though they did quite well, they generally thought that they had not had great races, including Leung (who made the comment most directly). I do not remember which one of the other guys they thought would run a bit better but it was one or two more, and even Cabral had an OK, not great, day (a pretty darn good finish).

I do not think that these guys will not be challenged at Heps.

From Penn XC/TF blog, it seems like it is a young team that is dealing with a lot of injuries right now.

Kovach started her season at Penn State Invite, so she should be pretty fresh

26mi235 wrote:

I do not think that these guys will not be challenged at Heps.

Skip the litotes and cut to the chase: So you DO think they WILL be challenged at Heps? Sorry, I can't see it.

For the men,

1. Princeton

2. Columbia/Dartmouth

4. Cornell

5. Harvard/Brown

7. Yale

8. Penn

erhr wrote:

26mi235 wrote:

I do not think that these guys will not be challenged at Heps.

Skip the litotes and cut to the chase: So you DO think they WILL be challenged at Heps? Sorry, I can't see it.

I do not know enough about the competition, but given the competition level at the Wisconsin race, if there were other teams that good, they would be better known. I really was not aware that Princeton was that good from the top down. There #2 guy is pretty good and it does not drop off that quickly thereafter.

erhr wrote:

26mi235 wrote: I do not think that these guys will not be challenged at Heps.

Skip the litotes and cut to the chase: So you DO think they WILL be challenged at Heps? Sorry, I can't see it.

Hard to imagine Princeton will be challenged by any other ivy. For starters, Princeton is a TOP TEN NCAA Division i competitor, after a convincing fourth place finishes at Wisconsin and Notre Dame. They have proven their strength against the best true Div. I teams in the country. Most of the other ivies, for the most part, have been missing on the national scene and have rankings that reflect their reticence.

Three ivies, Yale, Brown and Penn are reckoning with programs whose coaches have either been fired (Brown, Penn) or moved on to new schools (Yale), leaving the new coach to pick up the pieces. This doesn't happen overnight.

Harvard is a conundrum, with a couple of good runners in Leakos and Orman, however, Orman is a freshman who is having to reckon with the transition to the longer distance of college XC, and, inexplicably, they have NOT run in four weeks as far as we are able to tell. In fact, the withdrawal of the team from the Brown Invitational, and its half-hearted entry at Wisconsin, in the weaker "B" race no less, have the ivy racing community scratching its collective heads in puzzlement. Another runner, Cotton, twisted his ankle up at Walden Pond on a practice run and has not run all season, therefor, even if he is pressed into service, will not be a factor.

Columbia and Dartmouth are both coached by long time, savvy guys who have a decent group of, and some, for the ivies, top, runners, however, probably not enough fire power to challenge for first place.

Cornell: don't really know this group, at all. Haven't seen their results.

A wild card: it is clear that some ivy programs, knowing they have no shot at glory on a regional, no less national level, are running their XC teams to peak at HEPS, because this is, for the ivy coaches, their only high profile opportunity to generate some positive results, and retain some credibility. Hard to say how this will play out. It is conceivable, though, that teams that have underachieved could ramp up for HEPS.

More, later.

Looking for team sweep by Princeton.

Look for Princeton men to score in the 20's. Columbia and Dartmouth will finish way behing the Tigers but way ahead of all others.

Look for Princeton women to narrolwy defeat Cornell and Yale, but they will get the win.

erhr wrote:

26mi235 wrote:

I do not think that these guys will not be challenged at Heps.

Skip the litotes and cut to the chase: So you DO think they WILL be challenged at Heps? Sorry, I can't see it.

Nah, he just doesn't understand English grammar.

C/M Runner wrote:

From Penn XC/TF blog, it seems like it is a young team that is dealing with a lot of injuries right now.

Kovach started her season at Penn State Invite, so she should be pretty fresh

Nope, Penn State was her third meet of the season (she ran two races at Van Cortlandt in September).

But yes, they are a young team for both the men and women and injuries with this young group appear to have been an issue so far this fall. Hopefully the new regime will bring better results in years to come as the runners adapt to a different approach. Definitely too early to judge even if this season has been frustrating.

HepsTrack.com doesn't have its usual team previews--Brett just relocated to NYC--but it has plenty of info about the meet anyway:

http://hepstrack.com/championships/heps-cross-country/2011-heps-championships/

Looks like taking the 8:14 NJTransit train from Penn Station should mean I get to the Princeton course around 10am. Thanks for the link to the trip planner, Brett!