The point is that, when he is at top fitness, he can run the first 1200m in 2:45 and still have something left in the tank. You almost make it sound like he should be training for a 1200m PR.
Huh? That's not a relevant point?
To break the WR he is going to have to run 2.45 and still have something in the tank because he's not running under 40.0 seconds a-la El G if it's anything that starts with 2.46.xx. So the question isn't if he still has something in the tank because clearly he's not going to be physically incapacitated running 2.45 something, it's if he has enough to still run in the 40.5 second range for another 300m exactly.
So okay he's in top form - does it mean anything if he runs 2.45.0 and can only manage 43 point in the last 300m because he starts eating sh-t with 150 to go? We just don't have any idea how he is handling/reacting to that sort of speed because the quickest we have ever seen from him is 2.46.82 at that key spot in the race.
I agree with your point. Theoretically though he might run the last 300 slower than if he splits in 2:46x but I think overall the time would have been faster, because he ran the race more evenly. However, I agree if he were to run 2:45.0, and still be able to run 40.xx, his training strategy would have to be improving even more LT/aerobic power because he has to have the same amount of lactate at 2:45x than he did with 2:46x, so he needs a fitness increase.
None of the indoor records are near the outdoor records. It has always been so - regardless of who set them. As for Jakob running 2 miles indoors - my mistake - it was 3k, but nowhere near the world mark for the distance.
Wrong.
In the 3k, the indoor record two times was superior to the outdoor record.
In the 2 Miles this has happened 8 times. Puttemans' 1973 indoor mark was bettered outdoors just 20 years later.
What do you think is the main reason, that the current indoor distance records are way behind the outdoor ones? Almost all athletes focus on the summer season.
That isn't correct. Puttemans's 2 mile record was set in Edinburgh's Meadowbank Stadium, which is an outdoor facility. It was substantially bettered the following year by Laase Viren and not "20 years later".
The main difference between the outdoor and indoor records is the indoor track is often only half the distance of an outdoor track. It is therefore run more on bends, which are slower. The surface may also not be as fast as mondo.
To break the WR he is going to have to run 2.45 and still have something in the tank because he's not running under 40.0 seconds a-la El G if it's anything that starts with 2.46.xx. So the question isn't if he still has something in the tank because clearly he's not going to be physically incapacitated running 2.45 something, it's if he has enough to still run in the 40.5 second range for another 300m exactly.
So okay he's in top form - does it mean anything if he runs 2.45.0 and can only manage 43 point in the last 300m because he starts eating sh-t with 150 to go? We just don't have any idea how he is handling/reacting to that sort of speed because the quickest we have ever seen from him is 2.46.82 at that key spot in the race.
I agree with your point. Theoretically though he might run the last 300 slower than if he splits in 2:46x but I think overall the time would have been faster, because he ran the race more evenly. However, I agree if he were to run 2:45.0, and still be able to run 40.xx, his training strategy would have to be improving even more LT/aerobic power because he has to have the same amount of lactate at 2:45x than he did with 2:46x, so he needs a fitness increase.
If Jakob can run faster then the same argument could have been applied to El G, that he should have run faster than 3:26 if he kept trying for it. But he didn't run faster. Sometimes runners hit their limits. Jakob may have arrived at his.
To break the WR he is going to have to run 2.45 and still have something in the tank because he's not running under 40.0 seconds a-la El G if it's anything that starts with 2.46.xx. So the question isn't if he still has something in the tank because clearly he's not going to be physically incapacitated running 2.45 something, it's if he has enough to still run in the 40.5 second range for another 300m exactly.
So okay he's in top form - does it mean anything if he runs 2.45.0 and can only manage 43 point in the last 300m because he starts eating sh-t with 150 to go? We just don't have any idea how he is handling/reacting to that sort of speed because the quickest we have ever seen from him is 2.46.82 at that key spot in the race.
I agree with your point. Theoretically though he might run the last 300 slower than if he splits in 2:46x but I think overall the time would have been faster, because he ran the race more evenly. However, I agree if he were to run 2:45.0, and still be able to run 40.xx, his training strategy would have to be improving even more LT/aerobic power because he has to have the same amount of lactate at 2:45x than he did with 2:46x, so he needs a fitness increase.
His training will be the same and it will come down to whether in the future he has a magic day, like what happens to anyone that sets a WR, where everything comes together, and he does finish sub-40 seconds of off 2:45. He’s been training for maximum fitness for over 10 years and no one knows more about training Jakob than Jakob himself.
Right, getting beat by one guy by .25 seconds in fields loaded with guys that can run 1:44, is eating sh*t over the last 150m.
I agree with your point. Theoretically though he might run the last 300 slower than if he splits in 2:46x but I think overall the time would have been faster, because he ran the race more evenly. However, I agree if he were to run 2:45.0, and still be able to run 40.xx, his training strategy would have to be improving even more LT/aerobic power because he has to have the same amount of lactate at 2:45x than he did with 2:46x, so he needs a fitness increase.
If Jakob can run faster then the same argument could have been applied to El G, that he should have run faster than 3:26 if he kept trying for it. But he didn't run faster. Sometimes runners hit their limits. Jakob may have arrived at his.
That is what I was saying indirectly. If he cannot improve his LT any more than he has then he cannot beat the 1500m WR. But I am ok with that. I think it'll set up some exciting 3k-5k races in the future.
I agree with your point. Theoretically though he might run the last 300 slower than if he splits in 2:46x but I think overall the time would have been faster, because he ran the race more evenly. However, I agree if he were to run 2:45.0, and still be able to run 40.xx, his training strategy would have to be improving even more LT/aerobic power because he has to have the same amount of lactate at 2:45x than he did with 2:46x, so he needs a fitness increase.
His training will be the same and it will come down to whether in the future he has a magic day, like what happens to anyone that sets a WR, where everything comes together, and he does finish sub-40 seconds of off 2:45. He’s been training for maximum fitness for over 10 years and no one knows more about training Jakob than Jakob himself.
Right, getting beat by one guy by .25 seconds in fields loaded with guys that can run 1:44, is eating sh*t over the last 150m.
I am perplexed too, as why he said "eating sh*t" the last 150. Even he runs the last 300 in 42.0, that is definitely not "eating sh*t."
I’m just skeptical of this freakish kick thing. Was his Budapest close really any different than Josh Kerr in Tokyo staying clear of the action and then having a lot left?
For #1 sure but the whole point is in the 800 it’s about 650m of leading. Different calculus then 1050 or whatever Jakob has attempted often. Kerr was definitely in huge shape last year. Better than 3:29.0. He closed in sub-54 running heaps of extra distance. That’s big fitness. My idea is everyone will be relatively equal through the first 800 or so with the jockeying and such. So Jakob waits to take it on and if anything his pace injection affects the chasers like Kerr and Nuguse more effectively as they won’t be sure of what he’s doing.
Well, you got some good points here, but I disagree in your first paragraph. -For sure Kerr gained dramatically on a fading Cheruiyot one the home straight in Tokyo, but not really on Jakob. Whereas Nordås had the fastest last lap both at Bislett (3.29.47 vs Jakob’s 3.27.95 and Kerr’s 3.30 something) and in Budapest. And in the latter he didn’t only gain significantly on Jakob, and nearly caught him - he also closed a huge part of the gap to Kerr…
Well, you got some good points here, but I disagree in your first paragraph. -For sure Kerr gained dramatically on a fading Cheruiyot one the home straight in Tokyo, but not really on Jakob. Whereas Nordås had the fastest last lap both at Bislett (3.29.47 vs Jakob’s 3.27.95 and Kerr’s 3.30 something) and in Budapest. And in the latter he didn’t only gain significantly on Jakob, and nearly caught him - he also closed a huge part of the gap to Kerr…
Because Kerr went all-out to catch and pass Jakob. He was hanging on the last 50. Meanwhile Nordas saved his energy for the final straight because he wasn't keying off any particular runner...
In the 3k, the indoor record two times was superior to the outdoor record.
In the 2 Miles this has happened 8 times. Puttemans' 1973 indoor mark was bettered outdoors just 20 years later.
What do you think is the main reason, that the current indoor distance records are way behind the outdoor ones? Almost all athletes focus on the summer season.
That isn't correct. Puttemans's 2 mile record was set in Edinburgh's Meadowbank Stadium, which is an outdoor facility. It was substantially bettered the following year by Laase Viren and not "20 years later".
The main difference between the outdoor and indoor records is the indoor track is often only half the distance of an outdoor track. It is therefore run more on bends, which are slower. The surface may also not be as fast as mondo.
It is correct.
Puttemans' (Puttemans's??) 1973 2 Miles indoor record astonishingly was set indoors. The mark for the first time was bettered outdoors over 20 years later.
Now let's see how long it will take when our friend finally will accept this easy to check fact.
His originally wrong statement was corrected. His first reply totally missed the point. I predict 10 more posts from his side until he finally sees that he was wrong. But he will not admit to it (he can't - some genetics issue), he will change the subject. All this alongside with a lot of insults from him. Let's wait and see!
Indoor races are not run more on bends (or just slightly). The smaller radius of indoor tracks is one of the reasons for slower times. But the main reason is that almost all athletes focus on the summer (outdoor) season. Some of the advantages of indoor tracks are no wind and the modern "springboard" floor.
His training will be the same and it will come down to whether in the future he has a magic day, like what happens to anyone that sets a WR, where everything comes together, and he does finish sub-40 seconds of off 2:45. He’s been training for maximum fitness for over 10 years and no one knows more about training Jakob than Jakob himself.
Right, getting beat by one guy by .25 seconds in fields loaded with guys that can run 1:44, is eating sh*t over the last 150m.
You really think this is going to happen? Jakob sub 40 off 2.45 at 1200? I am a massive fan of his but I'm not a delusional fanboy. I am definitely bookmarking this thread - it's getting absolutely remedial.
Also what even is this reference you are talking about - the "beat by one guy by 0.25 seconds"??? What is that even in reference to? I said that with respect to the WR (which is what we are discussing?)it's meaningless if he can just get to 1200 in 2.45 if he can't then get round the final 300 in at least 41.0 seconds (and this is assuming he hits it in 2.45.0). It's also meaningless even he get's to 1200 in 2.45 and runs another 150m on pace but then implodes - these are all hypotheticals based on the fact (and it is a fact) that we have never even seen him run under 2.46.5 through 1200 yet, let alone in the 2.45's.
Some of you guys don't understand the nuance of making a point with a logical basis do you? We are all ultimately dealing with hypotheticals here, none of us know. Your logic is simply "Jakob knows more about his training than we do" and a "magic day" - are you f-ing serious man? That's your logic? I'm done bothering with your input, it's not value adding.
I am perplexed too, as why he said "eating sh*t" the last 150. Even he runs the last 300 in 42.0, that is definitely not "eating sh*t."
So if Jakob runs a 1200 in 2min45.00 (which is 55 seconds per lap pace), continues at that pace for another 150m - which is about 20.5 seconds (you still with me here?), if that final 300m was 43 seconds it would mean he covered the last 150m of it in 22.5 seconds (or 60 second pace). That for an elite runner is "eating sh-t" in the last 150m. You understand the hypothetical situation now? The basis for this hypothesis is that running under 2.46 at 1200m might be tough for Jakob given his 800m speed it probably right at about 1.45.0 seconds and despite his incredible endurance an intermediate time of 1.49.5/1.50.0 is still a very tight differential. Which btw is the underlying point that Steve Cram, the former 1500m and mile WR holder is making.
I am perplexed too, as why he said "eating sh*t" the last 150. Even he runs the last 300 in 42.0, that is definitely not "eating sh*t."
So if Jakob runs a 1200 in 2min45.00 (which is 55 seconds per lap pace), continues at that pace for another 150m - which is about 20.5 seconds (you still with me here?), if that final 300m was 43 seconds it would mean he covered the last 150m of it in 22.5 seconds (or 60 second pace). That for an elite runner is "eating sh-t" in the last 150m. You understand the hypothetical situation now? The basis for this hypothesis is that running under 2.46 at 1200m might be tough for Jakob given his 800m speed it probably right at about 1.45.0 seconds and despite his incredible endurance an intermediate time of 1.49.5/1.50.0 is still a very tight differential. Which btw is the underlying point that Steve Cram, the former 1500m and mile WR holder is making.
Is this still perplexing for you? FFS.
You arbitrarily pick 43 for some reason. That's what was perplexing. If he splits through in 2:45.0 why would he slow to 43? So yes it's still perplexing.
That isn't correct. Puttemans's 2 mile record was set in Edinburgh's Meadowbank Stadium, which is an outdoor facility. It was substantially bettered the following year by Laase Viren and not "20 years later".
The main difference between the outdoor and indoor records is the indoor track is often only half the distance of an outdoor track. It is therefore run more on bends, which are slower. The surface may also not be as fast as mondo.
It is correct.
Puttemans' (Puttemans's??) 1973 2 Miles indoor record astonishingly was set indoors. The mark for the first time was bettered outdoors over 20 years later.
Now let's see how long it will take when our friend finally will accept this easy to check fact.
His originally wrong statement was corrected. His first reply totally missed the point. I predict 10 more posts from his side until he finally sees that he was wrong. But he will not admit to it (he can't - some genetics issue), he will change the subject. All this alongside with a lot of insults from him. Let's wait and see!
Indoor races are not run more on bends (or just slightly). The smaller radius of indoor tracks is one of the reasons for slower times. But the main reason is that almost all athletes focus on the summer (outdoor) season. Some of the advantages of indoor tracks are no wind and the modern "springboard" floor.
You're wrong. I checked the accounts of his record and they were given as outdoor. Meadowbank is not an indoor facility. So p*ss off.
His training will be the same and it will come down to whether in the future he has a magic day, like what happens to anyone that sets a WR, where everything comes together, and he does finish sub-40 seconds of off 2:45. He’s been training for maximum fitness for over 10 years and no one knows more about training Jakob than Jakob himself.
Right, getting beat by one guy by .25 seconds in fields loaded with guys that can run 1:44, is eating sh*t over the last 150m.
You really think this is going to happen? Jakob sub 40 off 2.45 at 1200? I am a massive fan of his but I'm not a delusional fanboy. I am definitely bookmarking this thread - it's getting absolutely remedial.
Also what even is this reference you are talking about - the "beat by one guy by 0.25 seconds"??? What is that even in reference to? I said that with respect to the WR (which is what we are discussing?)it's meaningless if he can just get to 1200 in 2.45 if he can't then get round the final 300 in at least 41.0 seconds (and this is assuming he hits it in 2.45.0). It's also meaningless even he get's to 1200 in 2.45 and runs another 150m on pace but then implodes - these are all hypotheticals based on the fact (and it is a fact) that we have never even seen him run under 2.46.5 through 1200 yet, let alone in the 2.45's.
Some of you guys don't understand the nuance of making a point with a logical basis do you? We are all ultimately dealing with hypotheticals here, none of us know. Your logic is simply "Jakob knows more about his training than we do" and a "magic day" - are you f-ing serious man? That's your logic? I'm done bothering with your input, it's not value adding.
Where is it written in stone that best 1500/5000m runner in the world can’t run 40 seconds over 300 meters after a 2:45? I define a “magic” race as the right race, the right day and the right place. He’s only 23 and it could still happen some day. How can you know with such precision as to what he can and can’t do?
I am perplexed too, as why he said "eating sh*t" the last 150. Even he runs the last 300 in 42.0, that is definitely not "eating sh*t."
So if Jakob runs a 1200 in 2min45.00 (which is 55 seconds per lap pace), continues at that pace for another 150m - which is about 20.5 seconds (you still with me here?), if that final 300m was 43 seconds it would mean he covered the last 150m of it in 22.5 seconds (or 60 second pace). That for an elite runner is "eating sh-t" in the last 150m. You understand the hypothetical situation now? The basis for this hypothesis is that running under 2.46 at 1200m might be tough for Jakob given his 800m speed it probably right at about 1.45.0 seconds and despite his incredible endurance an intermediate time of 1.49.5/1.50.0 is still a very tight differential. Which btw is the underlying point that Steve Cram, the former 1500m and mile WR holder is making.
Is this still perplexing for you? FFS.
You're trying to explain the challenges Ingebrigtsen faces with fans who simply throw numbers around without knowing what they mean.
Puttemans' (Puttemans's??) 1973 2 Miles indoor record astonishingly was set indoors. The mark for the first time was bettered outdoors over 20 years later.
Now let's see how long it will take when our friend finally will accept this easy to check fact.
His originally wrong statement was corrected. His first reply totally missed the point. I predict 10 more posts from his side until he finally sees that he was wrong. But he will not admit to it (he can't - some genetics issue), he will change the subject. All this alongside with a lot of insults from him. Let's wait and see!
Indoor races are not run more on bends (or just slightly). The smaller radius of indoor tracks is one of the reasons for slower times. But the main reason is that almost all athletes focus on the summer (outdoor) season. Some of the advantages of indoor tracks are no wind and the modern "springboard" floor.
You're wrong. I checked the accounts of his record and they were given as outdoor. Meadowbank is not an indoor facility. So p*ss off.
As predicted, third post. Again wrong (didn't get the point so far). Insult.
At least seven more posts from him until he gets it. Probably much more.
Puttemans' 1973 indoor record over 2 Miles astonishingly was set indoors. Seems way beyond Army's understanding. For over 20 years it was the fastest 2 Miles time.