Norwegian Jakob Ingebrigtsen takes gold in the Men's 1,500m in Berlin at the 2018 European Championships. For more on European Athletics, visit https://www.e...
Why are you quoting me in that other thread? I wrote Jakob was more like Komen than Hicham in the 2nd post in this thread, which I had directed you to, and now you have adopted this as your own opinion in that other thread. Are you still drinking heavily? How do you explain this?
As I have said, it is only the thickest posters here who want to get out their feeble little boxing gloves.
Which you proceed to do dozens of times every day.
I just asked you to be honest, and after posting "Yet everything about the latter distances tells me he is just another doper at the top of the sport" you attempt to deny what you just confirmed.
The whole problem with your 800m analysis, besides the fact that he is a 1500m-5000m specialist, is that we won't know what Jakob's 800m capability is until he tries. His overall performance has improved in the last three years.
Jack Daniel's VDOT (which favors endurance) says that his 2-mile record predicts 1:44.95.
Why do you continually advertise how dense you are? Jakob hasn't run 1.44 and never will, so the argument about him likely doping isn't reduced.
I suppose your Jack Daniels conversion also gives Rudisha the 2-mile world record - it's just that he couldn't be bothered running it. I love the way you think a "table" proves how much faster an athlete is than anything they accomplish in the track. It probably also shows El G was really a 1:42 runner over the 800. Funny how these guys rarely if ever bother racing these events and accomplish the times they are supposed to be capable of. They clearly understand something your tables don't.
Before the olympics Jakob said exactly the same thing you are saying now, he said: “I will never run 1.44 ever!” But last year he had changed his mind -why I do not know (if he is just being strategic or if he really means it).
So what do I think? Well, nothing at all; it’s completely empty in my brains.. Guess I’m looking forward to see / find out eventually…!
Well we know one thing for certain - the pace making will be absolutely perfect, but what does he have the lights and the bodies set to run?
Can he do it going out in over 1.50 at the 800m mark? That would mean he has to run 1.35.XX for the final 700m which is really tough, even for him off that sort of opening.
My gut feeling is that he has to be fractionally under 1.50.0 - somewhere between 1.49.5 and 1.50.0, has to keep it rolling to be under 2.45 at 1200m leaving him right around 41 seconds for the final 300m (he ran right on 41.5 in the 2 mile and 40.3 in Rabat).
I think I'm stating the obvious that if he can break it he's not going to smash it, so I think his dream race is:
54.7, 55.0, 55.1, (2.44.8) and 41.0 to run 3.25.8X
Really can't wait to (hopefully) see him get after a 1200m split - been a long time since I feel like my eyes have nearly popped out of my head seeing 2.44 and change pop up after 3 laps. Exciting times - what do people think?
(btw wanted to add that this isn't necessarily with respect to Oslo, but it's clear that the shape he is in this season that a tilt is going to happen at some point, so this would just be his path to that record) https://gaminguider.com
The main focus is on the projected times for each segment of the race and the overall race time. The individual expressing their thoughts believes that maintaining a pace slightly under 1.50.0 for the first 800m, followed by consistent pacing, will be crucial. They speculate that finishing the 1200m mark in under 2.45 and then running around 41 seconds for the final 300m would lead to a successful race. The goal seems to be breaking a record, but not necessarily setting a new world record. The person expressing their excitement and anticipation for the race and is curious to hear others' opinions. It's important to note that the specific context or athlete involved is not provided, making it difficult to provide a more detailed response.
This post was edited 24 seconds after it was posted.
Some arguments here about Jakobs speed, taking his PB at 800 1.46.44 into account. His 3:27.95 is 13.863 per 100. To reach 3:26.00 he has to run 13.733. But he cannot run 0.13 faster because of his lack of speed - documented by his 800 , which is 13.3. OK. What is his limit at 1500: 13.83, 13.78, 13.76? And if he runs 1.45.60 at 800, which is 13.2, what difference will that make?
Mate - what are you talking about?
I literally wrote in this thread I don't think his 800m ability actually matters that much because of a few things
1) This record is not in the realm of the 800m runner anymore (like Coe, Cram etc) it's been in the realm of the 1500/3000m runner ever since Morceli (once the WR holder in the 3000m and El G, the number 2AT) took the record below 3.28. And Jakob is the strongest of them all because he has vastly greater potential at 3000m then both of them (as evidenced by the fact he ran under 7.22 for the final 3000m of a 3218m race a matter of weeks ago).
2) And sure, nobody is sitting here saying that knowing he probably would need to run in the vicinity of 1.49.5, that he can be a 1.48 runner with greater 3000m endurance and do it.
You totally contradict yourself in the space of like 30 words. You say he can't do it "because of his lack of speed-documented by his 800" and then a sentence later you directly imply that even if he was to run faster "what difference will it make"? So I don't get it - does his 800m time matter or not???
So here is a simple question for you then with your "to the hundredth" logic - Jakob can run 7.21.0 for 3000m. How fast would he need to be over 800m with that endurance for the record to be realistic? That's a simple question - all I need is a "1.4X.XX" as a response. The floor is yours.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
It's important to note that the specific context or athlete involved is not provided, making it difficult to provide a more detailed response.
Uhhh thanks for the clarification of this thread. Nicely done.
Regarding the specific context or athlete involved? Yeah the title of the thread is:
"How does Jakob break the WR in the 1500m..."
Apologies if that was unclear. I'm referring to Jakob Ingebrigtsen the Norwegian 1500/5000m runner who is the reigning Olympic champion in the 1500m and 5000m World Champion. He ran 3.27.95 last week.
This post was edited 5 minutes after it was posted.
Why do you continually advertise how dense you are? Jakob hasn't run 1.44 and never will, so the argument about him likely doping isn't reduced.
I suppose your Jack Daniels conversion also gives Rudisha the 2-mile world record - it's just that he couldn't be bothered running it. I love the way you think a "table" proves how much faster an athlete is than anything they accomplish in the track. It probably also shows El G was really a 1:42 runner over the 800. Funny how these guys rarely if ever bother racing these events and accomplish the times they are supposed to be capable of. They clearly understand something your tables don't.
Sure, Jakob hasn't run 1.44 and maybe he never will. We can't know what he can do until he tries, and until then, we may never know what his 800m speed is.
Would I use VDOT for Rudisha? If you know anything about VDOT, it is an "oxygen power" based performance predictor. So if Rudisha could run the 800m world record at aerobic capacity, then we could use the VDOT to predict his 2-mile.
If you were smarter, you might have told me that VDOT isn't recommended for 800m predictions, but interestingly enough, VDOT predicts his 400m (51.05 vs. 51.03) and 5000m (12:46.14 vs. 12:48.45) quite well.
And it is not all that unrealistic to think that a 20-year old who ran 1:46.44, who has demonstrated significant improvement in the next three years, wouldn't also improve his 800m time by around 1.5 seconds as a 23-year old.
Modern tracks make it easy to run faster times. Particularly the track of Paris was extremely fast, that explain the times recorded in the 800m both in male in women categories.
Some arguments here about Jakobs speed, taking his PB at 800 1.46.44 into account. His 3:27.95 is 13.863 per 100. To reach 3:26.00 he has to run 13.733. But he cannot run 0.13 faster because of his lack of speed - documented by his 800 , which is 13.3. OK. What is his limit at 1500: 13.83, 13.78, 13.76? And if he runs 1.45.60 at 800, which is 13.2, what difference will that make?
1) This record is not in the realm of the 800m runner anymore (like Coe, Cram etc) it's been in the realm of the 1500/3000m runner ever since Morceli (once the WR holder in the 3000m and El G, the number 2AT) took the record below 3.28. And Jakob is the strongest of them all because he has vastly greater potential at 3000m then both of them (as evidenced by the fact he ran under 7.22 for the final 3000m of a 3218m race a matter of weeks ago).
You are comparing events that happened with almost 30 years of difference. Extremely genial. You never figured that the one that started it is the one that get the full credit.
Why do you continually advertise how dense you are? Jakob hasn't run 1.44 and never will, so the argument about him likely doping isn't reduced.
I suppose your Jack Daniels conversion also gives Rudisha the 2-mile world record - it's just that he couldn't be bothered running it. I love the way you think a "table" proves how much faster an athlete is than anything they accomplish in the track. It probably also shows El G was really a 1:42 runner over the 800. Funny how these guys rarely if ever bother racing these events and accomplish the times they are supposed to be capable of. They clearly understand something your tables don't.
Sure, Jakob hasn't run 1.44 and maybe he never will. We can't know what he can do until he tries, and until then, we may never know what his 800m speed is.
Would I use VDOT for Rudisha? If you know anything about VDOT, it is an "oxygen power" based performance predictor. So if Rudisha could run the 800m world record at aerobic capacity, then we could use the VDOT to predict his 2-mile.
If you were smarter, you might have told me that VDOT isn't recommended for 800m predictions, but interestingly enough, VDOT predicts his 400m (51.05 vs. 51.03) and 5000m (12:46.14 vs. 12:48.45) quite well.
And it is not all that unrealistic to think that a 20-year old who ran 1:46.44, who has demonstrated significant improvement in the next three years, wouldn't also improve his 800m time by around 1.5 seconds as a 23-year old.
Amos and Ryun - and a whole lot of other runners who peaked young - disagree. 1.5secs is a very big margin in the 800. The only thing that is "realistic" is what a runner actually achieves. Anything else is fantasy - it hasn't happened and likely never will - and fantasy is most of what you and the fanboys have to say.
Sure, Jakob hasn't run 1.44 and maybe he never will. We can't know what he can do until he tries, and until then, we may never know what his 800m speed is.
Would I use VDOT for Rudisha? If you know anything about VDOT, it is an "oxygen power" based performance predictor. So if Rudisha could run the 800m world record at aerobic capacity, then we could use the VDOT to predict his 2-mile.
If you were smarter, you might have told me that VDOT isn't recommended for 800m predictions, but interestingly enough, VDOT predicts his 400m (51.05 vs. 51.03) and 5000m (12:46.14 vs. 12:48.45) quite well.
And it is not all that unrealistic to think that a 20-year old who ran 1:46.44, who has demonstrated significant improvement in the next three years, wouldn't also improve his 800m time by around 1.5 seconds as a 23-year old.
Amos and Ryun - and a whole lot of other runners who peaked young - disagree. 1.5secs is a very big margin in the 800. The only thing that is "realistic" is what a runner actually achieves. Anything else is fantasy - it hasn't happened and likely never will - and fantasy is most of what you and the fanboys have to say.
Ryun's best 5000m is 13:38 and Amos's best 3000m is 8:33.93. These high speed milers lacking endurance are not really comparable. Jakob didn't peak at 20. Three years later we can clearly see he is still improving.
What is fantasy is to pretend his 2020 800m performance represents the best he could do in 2023, when we know he is clearly faster, because, as you said, this 800m attempt did not happen when he was in peak 2023 shape. And we may never know if he doesn't try, and he may never try because achieving 800m speed isn't really all that important for a 1500m-5000m runner.
Some arguments here about Jakobs speed, taking his PB at 800 1.46.44 into account. His 3:27.95 is 13.863 per 100. To reach 3:26.00 he has to run 13.733. But he cannot run 0.13 faster because of his lack of speed - documented by his 800 , which is 13.3. OK. What is his limit at 1500: 13.83, 13.78, 13.76? And if he runs 1.45.60 at 800, which is 13.2, what difference will that make?
Mate - what are you talking about?
I literally wrote in this thread I don't think his 800m ability actually matters that much because of a few things
1) This record is not in the realm of the 800m runner anymore (like Coe, Cram etc) it's been in the realm of the 1500/3000m runner ever since Morceli (once the WR holder in the 3000m and El G, the number 2AT) took the record below 3.28. And Jakob is the strongest of them all because he has vastly greater potential at 3000m then both of them (as evidenced by the fact he ran under 7.22 for the final 3000m of a 3218m race a matter of weeks ago).
2) And sure, nobody is sitting here saying that knowing he probably would need to run in the vicinity of 1.49.5, that he can be a 1.48 runner with greater 3000m endurance and do it.
You totally contradict yourself in the space of like 30 words. You say he can't do it "because of his lack of speed-documented by his 800" and then a sentence later you directly imply that even if he was to run faster "what difference will it make"? So I don't get it - does his 800m time matter or not???
So here is a simple question for you then with your "to the hundredth" logic - Jakob can run 7.21.0 for 3000m. How fast would he need to be over 800m with that endurance for the record to be realistic? That's a simple question - all I need is a "1.4X.XX" as a response. The floor is yours.
I am sorry, may be due to my bad english here and that this was not meant as a comment to you. But actually to those who are obsessed with his 800-running. And i also left out a questionmark after"speed-documented by his 800". My "hundredth logic" was also meant rethorically directed to those who thinks this is about 800-speed. So I failed. I do not disagree with you at all. Have a nice day.
Amos and Ryun - and a whole lot of other runners who peaked young - disagree. 1.5secs is a very big margin in the 800. The only thing that is "realistic" is what a runner actually achieves. Anything else is fantasy - it hasn't happened and likely never will - and fantasy is most of what you and the fanboys have to say.
Ryun's best 5000m is 13:38 and Amos's best 3000m is 8:33.93. These high speed milers lacking endurance are not really comparable. Jakob didn't peak at 20. Three years later we can clearly see he is still improving.
What is fantasy is to pretend his 2020 800m performance represents the best he could do in 2023, when we know he is clearly faster, because, as you said, this 800m attempt did not happen when he was in peak 2023 shape. And we may never know if he doesn't try, and he may never try because achieving 800m speed isn't really all that important for a 1500m-5000m runner.
For the mindless pedants here - and don't feel singled out, it is a characteristic of this site - it isn't being argued that Jakob has to be a good 800 runner to be able to take El G's record. The point is that the record requires speed as well as endurance. If it were not so then those runners with the best endurance - the 5k, 10k and even marathon exponents - could conceivably take El G's record. Of course they can't. They aren't fast enough. And that is the issue with Jakob. Is he fast enough? We have a few indicators to go on, which include how well does he finish off a slow pace - we see it isn't his strength, he doesn't race that way - and what can he run for the 800. There, his times are utterly pedestrian. Hence, he appears to be working with less speed in his toolkit than many other 1500 exponents, including virtually all previous Olympic and world champions and world record holders. I don't think even his incredible endurance can compensate for that lack of speed, because at 3.26 pace he is going to be pushed into anaerobic territory for too long to sustain that pace. But then a better drug may prove me wrong.
I don't think even his incredible endurance can compensate for that lack of speed, because at 3.26 pace he is going to be pushed into anaerobic territory for too long to sustain that pace. But then a better drug may prove me wrong.
Very good. You are right. Because even if you are proven wrong you are right. The only way you can be proven wrong is because Jakob must have found a better drug. So, you are right and can never be proven wrong. This is the perfect immunization strategy. Your hypothesis can not be falsified. Brilliant.
Very good. You are right. Because even if you are proven wrong you are right. The only way you can be proven wrong is because Jakob must have found a better drug. So, you are right and can never be proven wrong. This is the perfect immunization strategy. Your hypothesis can not be falsified. Brilliant.
You are slow to catch on. He already dopes. As it is, it is insufficient to get him the record. He lacks speed. But he could possibly do better. Doping-wise.