3rd Kipchoge pacer popped for drugs- 2016/2019 Rotterdam champ - Marius Kipserem (2:04:04 pb) confesses to EPO usage

Rekrunner - Kenya and Ethiopia are also on the very select AIU watch list of a handful of countries recognized as having athletes who are at a great risk of doping. Does this make sense to you?

Your entire 'science' depends on the absurd belief that everybody dopes everywhere equally, regardless of poverty and corruption levels, or differing standards of testing. And if there is a rampant doping culture in Africa, why should it be a surprise that African runners moving to Europe or the USA, also take that culture with them? Confirmed by the high number of 'French', 'Spanish', 'Swedish', 'Belgium' African origin runners who have been busted.

No, that would be the biggest distance running story in decades.

Coevett -- How the AIU arbitrarily generates these lists is a mystery they don't make public. What you want to infer from that is not something I try to make sense of. While it is marketed to the public as athletes "most at risk of doping", when you dig deeper for the explanation, it is really a combined assessment of the quality of national anti-doping, and the talent of the athletes.

What doesn't make sense is your absurd belief that East Africa would have had the infrastructure and means to dope on the scale that you allege would explain their success as far back as 1987, and be able to hide it for more than three decades. A super-power like Russia couldn't do it even though they had state support to fund doping, to hire scientists, and to hide it.

Do you want suggest that Kenya and Ethiopia were outdoping Russia and the USA way back in 1981 World Cross Country, when there was no money in it? The 1980s was not a notably drug free period for either country. When you think about how that would be funded, who would fund it, and logistically how to store the drugs, or how to store and reinject the blood, and how little would be gained, this sounds most absurd to me.

I don't know what you want to mean by "rampant doping culture", and how to compare that assessment with other nations. If we want to speak of national doping cultures, one only need to turn their heads towards cycling to see athletes of all nations share a culture of doping and corruption you think it's not racist to say only exists in Africa. Or we can peruse any WADA ADRV list to see which nations have a doping culture.

The questions become: First, are there, as you claim, a high number of 'French', 'Spanish', 'Swedish', 'Belgium' African origin runners who have been busted? Do these Africans take that doping culture with them, or are they targeted because of their inherent potential talent both inside and outside of Africa, by corrupt non-Africans?

Congrats on getting the 'official does epo work?' thread deleted.

Shortly after Kiprop got busted, when he was still manically trying to convince everybody of his innoncence on Twitter, he posted a screenshot of a text message from Kipchoge on his mobile phone. Kipchoge was asking to see him personally at his home, as they needed to talk about something (in relation to Kiprop's bust and legal defence). Kiprop has deleted that tweet, along with the famous 'EPO!' tweet, lol.

With the number of lies you tell everyday this must be taken as another lie unless you provide some evidence to the contrary.

Please explain, Armstrong. Kenya and Ethiopia have more dopers than the rest of the world? They have more advanced doping?

Please explain that around 90% of the 300 fastest male marathon runners are from East African origin. What's the reason for this astonishing fact?

"More doping" is the explanation of a child.

So how do you explain the fact that the best Kenyan was ranked 25th all time at the end of 1991, and by the end of that EPO decade, 32 Kenyans had ran faster? Co-incidence? Before EPO, there was not the slightest indication that Kenyans were some kind of marathon master race. If you'd bet money at the time, you would say it was the Japanese (and if any race does have any genetic advantages, it probably is the Japanese). Tanzania had more world clas marathoners than Kenya before EPO.

Life must be getting increasingly lonely for Kipchoge, when all the runners around him are getting popped.

Doping in Kenya has been utterly exposed; the sporting culture is as corrupt as any we have seen - including the state-sponsored dopers of the former E Bloc and China's "Ma's Army".

Some months ago Daouda twitted he was supporting Kenya candidacy for 2025.

africanews.com

Kenya loses 2025 World Athletics Championships bid to Japan | Africanews

https://www.facebook.com/africanews.channel

Kenya lost the 2025 World Athletics championships bid to Tokyo. The World Athletics President made the announcement in Orgeon, Thursday. Apart from Nairobi and Tokyo, Silesia in Poland and Singapore, were other candidates for...

Link:www.africanews.com/2022/07/15/kenya-lo...

After "what happened" in the last week, he kept his mouth shut in twitter and spoke only about Russian.

Some countries, while we have good sprit for them, want harm us even if it's far from them thousand of Kilometers. (Do the Moroccan speak about the 600.000 causalities in Ethiopia in the last years?)

I don't think Japanese have gene predispositions for the Marathon, but they have a lot of money and a lot of sportive event organized in their country

Japan (even China) are good ancestral countries with a deep roots in history.

Kipchoge has a loving wife and children. You?
Life must be getting increasingly lonely for you as you spend more than 6 hours a day on Letsrun, often posting late at night and early in the morning (yes, your local time).

At the end of 91, the best Kenyan ranked 21st. You should try to hide your lies little bit better. If you put any African - and only Africans - down any time it's too obvious, OK?

Kenyan women have improved by about 20 minutes since the 80s. Is EPO the only reason for this you can see? For me not. The main reason for me seems to be: Kenyan women didn't run the Marathon back in the day at all. Some men did, but not like they do today. And still they had some good results: for example victories in Boston and New York. Gold at the 87 world champs or silver at the 88 Olympics.

But what about 3 Olympic titles for Ethiopia? And those doped up Djiboutians who won the 85 world cup? This sporting power house of 400000 (at the time) people. And the world class Tanzanians. Who has held the world record until 98? An Ethiopian. Great success from East Africans in the 80s. While definitely not beeing trained really well.

But my friends aren't all dopers. Kipchoge's are. And they're getting busted like confetti at a wedding.

Deniers will deny. More positive tests of long distance runners in some countries more than others, some very big fish, would certainly indicate there are many more not caught. The figures do not lie. With better shoes, clothes, racing feeding and financial incentive, times inevitably would drop. But, be sensible, really, can anyone still reasonably think there is no large scale doping problem in Kenya?

Are you going to ever apologise when you falsely accuse me of lying for the 101st time?

worldathletics.org

Marathon - men - senior - outdoor

Link:www.worldathletics.org/records/all-tim...

Yes, Kenyan female marathoners have improved largely by mass doping. Of course when Kenyan runners start dominating through doping, encouraged and exploited by shady Westerners, and masked by the idea that they have 'running genes' that nobody outside Africa posesses, they will increasingly flock to that sport. I've said repeatedly that Kenyan success is down to doping AND participation levels. If you have 1% of young athletes in the West pursuing long distance running AND maybe 5% of them dope (and subjected to stricter doping controls), as compared to 90% of young athletes in East Africa pursuing long distance running AND 95% of them dope (with near zero testing), that's how you get to '300 best marathoners East African' stats.

I'm sure this is another lie used to justify the 'natural born runner' myth. The Ethiopians in the 50's and 60's were organizing military training camps at high altitude where the elite (such as Bikili) were running 150 miles weeks with regular speed sessions on the track. This at a time when the rest of the world's training consisted mainly of jogging to and back from work, or running on the spot in the bath (Zatopek). And if you accuse me of lying here, I'll post Bikili's training (again). The GDR modelled their system on Ethiopia's.

Even from your purely made up fake numbers (not better than lying) it wouldn't follow what you want to show.

The best Kenyan women going from 2:35 college level in the 80s to 2:15 world best level today can't be explained by doping. The main reason is that Kenyan women didn't run the Marathon in the 80s. That's not the only reason for this extreme improvement, but the main one.

No, after 200+ doping buts and 25 this year alone, you need to provide the evidence that Kenyans have some kind of special genetic makeup. Just like RekRunner needs to provide the evidence for his extraordinary claim that EPO doesn't work. Neither your view or his are without consequences.

BTW, Ma's army improved the Chinese women's 3K and 5K by something like a minute. There was no Chinese woman ranked in the top 1000, yet in the space of a year or two, they had the fastest times in history. Do we need genetics to explain this?

I don't make any extraordinary claim that "EPO doesn't work".

When I argue that altitude training "works", altitude is associated with a natural boost in EPO production -- think of it as continuous microdosing 24x7. If you want evidence of altitude training working on well-trained sea-level athletes, see a 1997 "hi-lo" altitude study by Stray-Gundersen.

You often argue against a "special genetic makeup", but this is a strawman of your own making -- no one argues that the thing that makes Kenyans unique boils down to just genetics. High altitude is environmental, as well as low bodyweight.

For sea-level non-Africans to compete with East Africans, I would suggest training at high altitude for an extended period of time, as well as, if possible, slimming down naturally and healthily to +/- 110 pounds.

The Chinese women never replicated these fast times outside of two meets in China.