Well, Shaw did finish 20th at NCAAs in the 5000m outdoor, and was 5th among Wolfpack runners in that race, and 6th if you count Seymour who was with Tennessee for that race. And if Chmiel was running in that race, Shaw likely would have been 7th among teammates.
So it’s not crazy to project Shaw as around 20-30 in XC. But the big problem is that Shaw has shown over her career to do much better on the track, and has yet to have that same level of success in XC.
I’m hopeful that Shaw will improve this year, and provide solid depth at the 6 or 7 spot. But I’m not confident that she would be a solid option as a potential 5th, if other runners weren’t available due to injury.
If you add the people you said she would not be 7th…… You have to add Mariah Howlett who beat her this past week and I believe Nevada Moreno is a head of her as well.
My point is that just because you are the 6th or 7th best runner on your team in an event, does not mean you can't be 20-25th best in the nation in that event. That may be true on most teams, but not on this current NC State women's distance team. Shaw proved that in the 5000m outdoors a few months ago, when she was the 6th best on the team in that event (with Chmiel injured), and finished 20th at NCAAs.
Yes, Howlett appears to be ahead of Shaw right now in XC. So Shaw is probably either their 7th or 8th best right now (depending on where Mareno is at).
All that said, as I've said many times now, I'm not that confident that Shaw will be able to have the same level of success in XC this fall as she did in outdoor track a few months ago, because she hasn't been able to translate the same level of performance to XC as she has on the track. So I would definitely not rank Shaw somewhere between 20-30 in the country in XC. She's probably somewhere in the range of 50-70.
It is too bad! I think it is a huge mistake on NC State’s part that they are not going to Stlllwater once to race the course before Nationals!!!!! A little too arrogant or over confident to not go to the toughest course in college CC before Nationals????
As others have said, many of the NC State runners are familiar with the course.
And toughest course in college? Sure, it's not a track on grass and isn't around soccer fields but I'm not sure it's the "toughest." Tough? Yes. Toughest? Probably not.
The course was actually tougher before the "improvements" and renovations a few years ago. It was a narrower course, which is always tougher. It is also manicured now and has Bermuda grass. Not a bad thing but just differenent. When the course was widened some of the bottlenecks were taken out and the turns are a bit more gentle. The stair-step sections were also taken out.
I'm not even sure that Oklahoma State has the toughest course in the Big XII. Rim Rock Farm is probably tougher.
What about some of the courses further out west? UNM is partly on a golf course but has plenty of rollers. It is also at > 5000 ft altitude. That is not as high as some areas but at 5000 ft it is definitely a consideration. The Big Sky schools routinely run at higher altitudes. Nothern Colorado's course is a bit under 5000 but I can remember not long ago when Drew Bosley was the Big Sky champ in his senior year with a time that was close to 27:00 for 8K. Only 4 guys were under 27:00 and only 19 were under 28:00.
There are actually quite a few courses tougher than Oklahoma State's and many schools know how to run tough courses. We shouldn't act as if OSU has the market on tough courses.
Cougars will make first appearance in Stillwater since winning NCAA Division 1 title in March 2021, with eight freshmen scheduled to face 12 other ranked programs in preparation for Nov. 19 national final; Northern Arizona me...
Obviously the coach and team that beat NC State badly at Stillwater and won the National Title there in 2021 understands the importance and high value of racing the course in advance of Nationals!!!!! I don’t understand all the defending of NC State here on this topic? I’m a fan of NC State but I’m just being real here. It is a no brainer for everyone except NC State here. I think Taylor, Wetmore, and Mike Smith have proven they know what they are doing!
Obviously the coach and team that beat NC State badly at Stillwater and won the National Title there in 2021 understands the importance and high value of racing the course in advance of Nationals!!!!! I don’t understand all the defending of NC State here on this topic? I’m a fan of NC State but I’m just being real here. It is a no brainer for everyone except NC State here. I think Taylor, Wetmore, and Mike Smith have proven they know what they are doing!
Plenty of the top schools are not competing in Stillwater, men’s & women’s teams - UNM, Stanford, Washington, ND, Iowa St, etc. Do those coaches not know what they’re doing either?
I should also note that if healthy in November NC State is so much more talented then everyone else they should win either way! My point is simply this…. Why not take every single little advantage you can get to give you the best chance to win?!?!? What coach does not do this in any sport? It’s like a football team that decides not to look at film on their opponents to prepare for the game. No sane coach says nah, we are good enough to win without preparing for the Super Bowl
I should also note that if healthy in November NC State is so much more talented then everyone else they should win either way! My point is simply this…. Why not take every single little advantage you can get to give you the best chance to win?!?!? What coach does not do this in any sport? It’s like a football team that decides not to look at film on their opponents to prepare for the game. No sane coach says nah, we are good enough to win without preparing for the Super Bowl
I remember there was an interview where there was a little debate over the merits of having seen the course, vs having seen it and experienced the difficulty (ie pain) of the last 1K. I think the 4 NC St runners that have seen it and/or run it can share what they learned with the rest of the team.
Lance Harter took Sydney Thorvaldson to this course during the cowboy preview race despite not even racing.
Knowlege is power.
Guys you're beyond silly if you think they have to go to Stillwater to understand the course or prepare for it
You realize there is a thing called technology, they can simulate the exact distance and amount of incline on treadmills and there's plenty of good trails with hills locally
And besides like 90% of the runners have already ran the course so who cares
Better not to go and save your energy and just use technology and planning to gear up for the exact course
Unless NC State gets a terrible amount of injuries or illness they will win and win easily... They have five runners who could potentially go top 10
And they have another four or five runners who could potentially go top 40.... It'll be Cakewalk for them
Lance Harter took Sydney Thorvaldson to this course during the cowboy preview race despite not even racing.
Knowlege is power.
Guys you're beyond silly if you think they have to go to Stillwater to understand the course or prepare for it
You realize there is a thing called technology, they can simulate the exact distance and amount of incline on treadmills and there's plenty of good trails with hills locally
And besides like 90% of the runners have already ran the course so who cares
Better not to go and save your energy and just use technology and planning to gear up for the exact course
Unless NC State gets a terrible amount of injuries or illness they will win and win easily... They have five runners who could potentially go top 10
And they have another four or five runners who could potentially go top 40.... It'll be Cakewalk for them
This all sounds good but the undefeated Patriots did not win the Super Bowl the year they went 16-0!!! They were by far like NC State is viewed now. If technology is so great why are all the contenders viewing the course in advance of November? And technology can’t simulate an athlete running the last 1k of that course. Running is the one sport you don’t practice like you play. If everyone trained like they race everyone would be injured and burned out. As Mike Smith said in a seminar, “we have to be careful we don’t leave good races in a workout.” Running is a different sport.
Obviously the coach and team that beat NC State badly at Stillwater and won the National Title there in 2021 understands the importance and high value of racing the course in advance of Nationals!!!!! I don’t understand all the defending of NC State here on this topic? I’m a fan of NC State but I’m just being real here. It is a no brainer for everyone except NC State here. I think Taylor, Wetmore, and Mike Smith have proven they know what they are doing!
Plenty of the top schools are not competing in Stillwater, men’s & women’s teams - UNM, Stanford, Washington, ND, Iowa St, etc. Do those coaches not know what they’re doing either?
Stanford and Washington are there. Both men and women.
Guys you're beyond silly if you think they have to go to Stillwater to understand the course or prepare for it
You realize there is a thing called technology, they can simulate the exact distance and amount of incline on treadmills and there's plenty of good trails with hills locally
And besides like 90% of the runners have already ran the course so who cares
Better not to go and save your energy and just use technology and planning to gear up for the exact course
Unless NC State gets a terrible amount of injuries or illness they will win and win easily... They have five runners who could potentially go top 10
And they have another four or five runners who could potentially go top 40.... It'll be Cakewalk for them
This all sounds good but the undefeated Patriots did not win the Super Bowl the year they went 16-0!!! They were by far like NC State is viewed now. If technology is so great why are all the contenders viewing the course in advance of November? And technology can’t simulate an athlete running the last 1k of that course. Running is the one sport you don’t practice like you play. If everyone trained like they race everyone would be injured and burned out. As Mike Smith said in a seminar, “we have to be careful we don’t leave good races in a workout.” Running is a different sport.
why are all the contenders viewing the course in advance of November? That is untrue.
NM and Alabama W are not going and many think they will be on the podium. ND, UNC, Georgetown W are thought to be top 10 contenders and are not going.
“It will be very interesting to take the new girls and show them that course because it can take your soul and I have to go pick mine up,” Halladay-Lowry said. “It is amazing that we have the opportunity to go check out the course, because it is very valuable to know that it’s a beast.”
What they don't say in the article is that she was in 49th place at 5K and BYU's #5 at that point. She collapsed and was literally crawling to the finish line in 184th place. Their actual number 5 scorer went out slow and steadily moved up from 149th at 1K to 41st at the finish.
Zachgo for NC State was in 38th place at 5K and their #4 at that point. Finished 226th.
This all sounds good but the undefeated Patriots did not win the Super Bowl the year they went 16-0!!! They were by far like NC State is viewed now. If technology is so great why are all the contenders viewing the course in advance of November? And technology can’t simulate an athlete running the last 1k of that course. Running is the one sport you don’t practice like you play. If everyone trained like they race everyone would be injured and burned out. As Mike Smith said in a seminar, “we have to be careful we don’t leave good races in a workout.” Running is a different sport.
why are all the contenders viewing the course in advance of November? That is untrue.
NM and Alabama W are not going and many think they will be on the podium. ND, UNC, Georgetown W are thought to be top 10 contenders and are not going.
Maybe your right? But I thought I read Alabama and NM were going to pre Nationals? But as for ND, UNC, and Georgetown I could careless personally. NC State’s B team could beat those schools. This is off subject but UNC is so overrated. A lot of false hype, and a bunch of recruiting talent that has done nothing probably due to poor coaching and mismanagement.
why are all the contenders viewing the course in advance of November? That is untrue.
NM and Alabama W are not going and many think they will be on the podium. ND, UNC, Georgetown W are thought to be top 10 contenders and are not going.
Maybe your right? But I thought I read Alabama and NM were going to pre Nationals? But as for ND, UNC, and Georgetown I could careless personally. NC State’s B team could beat those schools. This is off subject but UNC is so overrated. A lot of false hype, and a bunch of recruiting talent that has done nothing probably due to poor coaching and mismanagement.
As an NC State fan, I absolutely despise everything related to UNC. However, did you see the times they ran at the Coaching Tree Invitational in Bloomington, Indiana on September 16th? Their top 5 runners were all under 20:38 on a 6k course. Was this a fast course? But then, if you look at the times they ran at their first meet at the Charlotte Opener on September 2nd, their top five were between 17:25 and 17:44 on a 5k course. Was that a tough/hilly course, or were they just running that race with minimal effort and like a "warm up"?
The University of North Carolina men's and women's cross country teams swept to a pair of wins against strong competition at the Coaching Tree Invitational on Friday.
Maybe your right? But I thought I read Alabama and NM were going to pre Nationals? But as for ND, UNC, and Georgetown I could careless personally. NC State’s B team could beat those schools. This is off subject but UNC is so overrated. A lot of false hype, and a bunch of recruiting talent that has done nothing probably due to poor coaching and mismanagement.
As an NC State fan, I absolutely despise everything related to UNC. However, did you see the times they ran at the Coaching Tree Invitational in Bloomington, Indiana on September 16th? Their top 5 runners were all under 20:38 on a 6k course. Was this a fast course? But then, if you look at the times they ran at their first meet at the Charlotte Opener on September 2nd, their top five were between 17:25 and 17:44 on a 5k course. Was that a tough/hilly course, or were they just running that race with minimal effort and like a "warm up"?
why are all the contenders viewing the course in advance of November? That is untrue.
NM and Alabama W are not going and many think they will be on the podium. ND, UNC, Georgetown W are thought to be top 10 contenders and are not going.
Maybe your right? But I thought I read Alabama and NM were going to pre Nationals? But as for ND, UNC, and Georgetown I could careless personally. NC State’s B team could beat those schools. This is off subject but UNC is so overrated. A lot of false hype, and a bunch of recruiting talent that has done nothing probably due to poor coaching and mismanagement.
No meet at OSU is on either schedule. UNC is not a podium threat but I could see them in the top 10.
Guys you're beyond silly if you think they have to go to Stillwater to understand the course or prepare for it
You realize there is a thing called technology, they can simulate the exact distance and amount of incline on treadmills and there's plenty of good trails with hills locally
And besides like 90% of the runners have already ran the course so who cares
Better not to go and save your energy and just use technology and planning to gear up for the exact course
Unless NC State gets a terrible amount of injuries or illness they will win and win easily... They have five runners who could potentially go top 10
And they have another four or five runners who could potentially go top 40.... It'll be Cakewalk for them
This all sounds good but the undefeated Patriots did not win the Super Bowl the year they went 16-0!!! They were by far like NC State is viewed now. If technology is so great why are all the contenders viewing the course in advance of November? And technology can’t simulate an athlete running the last 1k of that course. Running is the one sport you don’t practice like you play. If everyone trained like they race everyone would be injured and burned out. As Mike Smith said in a seminar, “we have to be careful we don’t leave good races in a workout.” Running is a different sport.
Great more silliness! Comparing cross-country to football is very silly... The odds of an upset in football is much greater and there's much more chance stuff that happens... In Cross country the best team will win the vast majority of the time if their runners are healthy... And with how much better NC State is than the competition I would say maybe 95% chance if they are healthy maybe even 99%... Sure anything can happen but how many times do runners get injured or wipe out during a NCAA cross country race? Maybe you could review some of the footage but seems like maybe one in a thousand!
NAU/Colorado/ND/Alabama/Washington/BYU - some ifs on each team, esp at #4 and 5 but seem most likely to fight it out for 4-9 place. Whoever finds the best depth will prevail, esp Alabama and BYU.
NAU? What makes you say that? They lose Eitel and Rasmussen and got only 23rd at nationals
