Race will probably be tactical, so 15:05 or so. Tuohy can compete at that level and might squeak in past Infeld who does not have a great kick. Schweizer and Cranny are the class of the field will wind it up in the last 1K. Third is up for grabs.
Do you still think Infeld doesn't have a great kick, or that Tuohy would have been competitive in a 15:05 race?
Can you explain to me how Tuohy could have been competitive in a much faster race, but was totally outclassed when things got slow?
That is the stark reality. No amount of natural takent can overcome chemistry. Look at Elle Henes. Trains at altitude. Solid pro. Can run in the low 15s. And she had no shot. There is a whole group (Henes, Orton, etc) that are in the same boat. Their times and progressions are clean. And they have no chance. Natural talent cannot beat EPO.
The joke is that in a few weeks these same BTC athletes are going to get mauled. As I alluded to, there is doping and then there is Doping.
The sad fact is when she goes pro Katelyn is going to have to play the game or be an also ran. The most naturally talented female distance runner in years, and that's the reality.
I know people don't like this, but I think it's that they don't like HEARING this.
Guys--get a grip on reality. One of the brightest US distance runner is serving a doping ban while her teammates continue to run away with titles.
The question is...what IS possible clean? Do we even have a gage on what that is?
Karissa did the thing that always gives me side eye. She packed her schedule. 10-5-15. After rounds of the 15 where she finished 4th, she pulled away in a blustering final mile in the 5K. She nearly won the 5 as a result. So to her credit, the 10 was a while back. But most of these other women were running on rested legs.
Sifan Hassan is the most obvious doper ever. 10-5-15, and Olympic medals in all. That's an eye-roll, and you may remember, Shelby did a schedule back too. 10K cross, then mile-2 mile in indoors in 2019. Shelby is a ban.
So my question is...should athletes who pack their schedules and perform well get scrutiny or no?
After Shelby everything causes me side eye. Emily Infeld at 32 running a mile PR in the 5K? Weird. Elise Cranny's "fatigue" to come back and dominate the 5K? Weird. Courtney Frerichs performance jump in 2017 and continued improvement? Weird.
Let me ask you guys--how do you know when an athlete is doping and when one is not? what are reasonable expectations to put in Tuohy given her talent at the moment?
Elite distance runners are cheating? You’re the first poster I’ve seen make that accusation and I just don’t want to hear it.
I can't believe how hard some of you guys make it to root for KT. She's had a great season, and has clearly progressed better than many (myself included) anticipated from high school.
Having said that, she had no shot at the worlds team and it is painful to hear all the excuses you guys make for her.
You say she didn't prepare for a jog and that it means it is not a true race? But if its a sub 15 race do you expect the top 3 to be drastically different? Surely her supreme kick would be even more valuable in such a slow race? And then to imply that anyone quicker than her is on the juice? What happens if in 5 years KT is running 14:2x and dictating US races? I'm sure it would just be her supreme talent?
KT seems like a great person and is obviously an amazing athlete, but the creepy obsession with her and the leaps you guys take to nullify any result which doesn't favor her is embarrassing, and as such makes her difficult to root for.
I despise the drug accusations pertaining to American women. Maybe Tuohy has been doing it since she started high school. That seems more likely than women doing it who get tested constantly. I don't think any of them are doing it and I request that theaccusations stop. Tuohy is outclassed. That is a fact. Maybe she will develop into a national class runner in a few years or maybe she won't. Nobody knows.
What I don't get is why so many pros let the Bowerman babes get away with controlling the race at such a slow pace. Especially with Schweitzer having run the 1500 the day before. At least make her work for this.
Who do you think could have stopped them? And how?
The sad fact is that the BB are so much better than anyone else in this field that nobody could stop them. Kelati tried, but couldn't.
Maybe if Emily Sisson had been in the race, she could have cranked it up early and run away from the BBs. But Sisson wasn't there, and nobody else was up to the job.
PS I'd say the BB worked for their victory. I'm sure they were hurting after running those last few laps. If you don't believe me, check out the look on Tuohy's face when she is asked whether she was ready for their kick.
I don't know that anyone could have beaten them. But if I am a competitor and I see them do this I would assume that BB think this is the best thing for them, so I would make them do something different. Also, for anyone who will finish further back, if you ever might need WA points, would you rather finisher 5, 6 or 7 in 16:00 or 15:10? Someday those points might be what is needed to qualify for an event. Or maybe the somewhat higher ranking strokes their ego. All in all, running the race the way it was run seems pointless for most of the field.
Who do you think could have stopped them? And how?
The sad fact is that the BB are so much better than anyone else in this field that nobody could stop them. Kelati tried, but couldn't.
Maybe if Emily Sisson had been in the race, she could have cranked it up early and run away from the BBs. But Sisson wasn't there, and nobody else was up to the job.
PS I'd say the BB worked for their victory. I'm sure they were hurting after running those last few laps. If you don't believe me, check out the look on Tuohy's face when she is asked whether she was ready for their kick.
I don't know that anyone could have beaten them. But if I am a competitor and I see them do this I would assume that BB think this is the best thing for them, so I would make them do something different. Also, for anyone who will finish further back, if you ever might need WA points, would you rather finisher 5, 6 or 7 in 16:00 or 15:10? Someday those points might be what is needed to qualify for an event. Or maybe the somewhat higher ranking strokes their ego. All in all, running the race the way it was run seems pointless for most of the field.
I disagree, I think if you let a race get slow enough it increases the chance of an upset. If BTC went to the front and ran 14:45 pace that thins the herd and takes 3/4s the field out. While a ~16 min pace increases the chance of a trip etc. which could benefit a wild card.
I think that a majority of the people at these championships want to compete their best and leading the race would disadvantage them as they are not the fastest.
Obviously. Watch the women's steeple. Only 3 can run that fast. If Cranny and Schweizer decided to go out in 4:40 for 1600, the race would have been over by 3k.
I can't believe how hard some of you guys make it to root for KT. She's had a great season, and has clearly progressed better than many (myself included) anticipated from high school.
Having said that, she had no shot at the worlds team and it is painful to hear all the excuses you guys make for her.
You say she didn't prepare for a jog and that it means it is not a true race? But if its a sub 15 race do you expect the top 3 to be drastically different? Surely her supreme kick would be even more valuable in such a slow race? And then to imply that anyone quicker than her is on the juice? What happens if in 5 years KT is running 14:2x and dictating US races? I'm sure it would just be her supreme talent?
KT seems like a great person and is obviously an amazing athlete, but the creepy obsession with her and the leaps you guys take to nullify any result which doesn't favor her is embarrassing, and as such makes her difficult to root for.
There are some people here with an unhealthy obsession with Touhy.
I disagree, I think if you let a race get slow enough it increases the chance of an upset. If BTC went to the front and ran 14:45 pace that thins the herd and takes 3/4s the field out.
I see your point, but I wonder whether you think Karissa could have run 14:45 after those two 1500s?
I was busy before, but to answer you more fully, exactly what excuses are you talking about? I said flat out she had no chance to qualify but that it would be a good experience. So when you write "you say" you are responding to the voices in your own head. By all means, point out any such statements attributable to me.
And learn to read. I did not say anyone faster then her were doping. I said Schweizer, Cranny, and the other BTC affiliated runners most certainly are doping. You know Schweizer, long time BTC member, Shelby Houlihan's training partner, the one running with her in that infamous time trial. You think she is clean or her teammates? Schweizer and Cranny are both dopers and an embarrassment to the sport and only a nitwit would pretend otherwise. You don't run in the 14:30s and below without PEDs. So yes if KT starts running 14:20, have at it. But watching the BTC doping machine operate with impunity and dominate races while we pretend nothing is amiss is pathetic. Not playing along. They are cheaters and frauds. Cranny and Schweizer and the whole sorry lot make my skin crawl. How stupid do they think we are?
And who cares about a few haters on LRC. I handle all of you easily enough all by my lonesome.
I believe that Houlihan being busted is in no way proof that the entire team or even one person cheated so I guess I’m stupider than you.
In regard to BTC’s best runner, people that cheat in distance running are of low character and that’s inconsistent with someone that received a degree in electrical engineering and is now pursuing a masters in management science and engineering. The claim (if that’s what she really meant) by a banned athlete that someone might of sabotaged her, indicates the character of a cheater.
Although the low character defense was truly funny. "Only athletes of low character dope." That is a classic.
If you were an elite runner, would you cheat to get to the next level and would you feel proud of your accomplishments? Unlike a Kenyan runner or a Dominican baseball player, you have options for a good life outside of sports, but your integrity is still for sale?
You do realize that virtually every top baseball player of the "live ball" era was doping, guys thst were already making millions? And so many other examples. Just silly. For example Shelby had a college degree and she was doping. Exception to the rule? Schweizer ran 14:26. If you think she did that clean you are on crack.