Christian Coleman facing a possible suspension for 3 missed tests

matt_london_413 wrote:

Coleman is not a cheat.

He's legit.

Try to be nicer and more positive about Coleman.

Let's all come up with solutions on how he can increase his inherit myostatin deficiency even more so that he can grow bigger and stronger in order to beat Bolts 9.58 and get the USA the WR in the 100.

Hahahaha. Letsrun at its finest.

khorrps wrote:

btw I'm white, not saying anything's impossible, just that how you see a field with many superior black athletes and come to a conclusion that a cac is actually the best... it's funny

There are 47 athletes faster than Lemaitre. And Lemaitre had the strongest tail wind of the 9 with the same 9.92.

Even in this dirty sport, I'd hope that not all of the top 47 (or 55!) are cheats.

A great many reasons why CL has a shot at being clean. And not necessarily THE fastest, but one of the fastest times thanks to +2.0.

Lots of junk around those times, like Ogunode, Drummond, Atkins, Mitchell, even Collins at age 39.

And a ton of junk at 9.87-9.89.

That’s just how it works out.

Matt London. You and me. Virtual 40 yard Dash race. Beginning of August. You and your perfect arm technique and your heavy weight lifting on machines vs. me running slow tempo styled workouts over 200 meters and barely doing any bodyweight stuff.

You'd have to learn how to measure the distance properly and how to video it properly, of course. No hand times, just video evidence versus video evidence.

You game?

Blackloud man, I thought you were for real.

Did you even SEE his vid? Come on man, for real?

Sprintgeezer wrote:

Blackloud man, I thought you were for real.

Did you even SEE his vid? Come on man, for real?

No, I know. It doesn't speak well of me. But...truth be told, I'm probably like a Matt London lite. Kinda. My argument would be a bit more sane. But...I may be an unreliable narrator.

I'll break my "no posting vids till I'm fit" rule if he takes me up on it. He just annoys me, so I'm trying to go down to his level. In the end, for all I know, I was always at that level anyway and I was just trying to hide/deny it.

Plus, this thread starting devolving into white guy sprinting 100m dash bologna, so, I thought it worth another hijack.

Sprintgeezer wrote:

A great many reasons why CL has a shot at being clean. And not necessarily THE fastest, but one of the fastest times thanks to +2.0.

Lots of junk around those times, like Ogunode, Drummond, Atkins, Mitchell, even Collins at age 39.

And a ton of junk at 9.87-9.89.

That’s just how it works out.

Kim Collins did actually get done for doping. Probably helped explain his longevity along with Gatlin.

Personally I think Bolt is clean, I never look to fast times as the only way to determine one is doping. He ran 20.5 as a skinny 15 year old to be come the youngest world junior champion ever, that kind of talent is once in a 100 years. Then he ran 19.9 at 17. Just insane.

Plenty of slow athletes get done for doping and also fast ones. It's an even mix. Times don't tell you who the dopers are.

Coleman is 100% doping though. With his arrogance he felt he can't get caught but fortunately that is not the case.

If the sport is serious about continuing it needs to come down hard on cheats. Otherwise it will be another bad example to the young athletes trying to make it. We are telling them; dope up and use that as a shortcut to getting fast quickly, make loads of money as a cheat, if you get caught you will be at the top the sport will protect you.

On the subject of Bolt, correct me if I'm wrong;

The only way to have a clean Bolt, but a dirty everyone else, is to assume that the entirety of humanity runs basically 9.9x basic on no juice, but Bolt runs 9.6x on no juice. To me, that's absurd, but I could see one taking that stance, I guess.

How reasonable is that kind of argument? Like, to be capable of running a basic 9.9x -juice or no juice- takes a kind of genetic freakness that is extraordinarily rare. Then, to extrapolate that to someone who can cut off .3 from that already rarified air, and to do it clean as a whistle? How realistic is that? I remember thinking wind legal high-to-mid 9.6s were pipe dreams, and Bolt ended up running a high 9.5; talk about paradigm shifting. The level of revolution that his performances represent, if he's clean and everyone else is dirty....mind boggling. And, to me, doesn't hold water if you really do that math.

Like, I have a hard time discerning what reality is, so maybe I'm just not seeing it right. I could be missing the logic, but that seems like such a HUGE leap that it can't be reasonable, UNLESS some of the guys that we love to harp on as dopers now, like a Mo Greene or a few guys like that, weren't doped to the gills. Then a clean Bolt seems like a logical possibility. But...if we keep pretty much stamping all the mid-to-low 9.8 guys as users....then I don't understand how one could do the mental gymnastics of arguing that Bolt was clean.

Agreed. And again, Bolt is from a drug cheat group, had to return one gold medal because of a doped teammate, is from a nation with next to no OOC tests at the time, used the suspicious Healing Hans with his secret ingredients routinely, and then there was the covered-up clen scandal of the Jamaican sprint team in Beijing 2008.

Clean? All signs say no way.

That he was brilliant in his youth, explains why he is the best in this dirty sport, not that he is clean.

what is this 'junk'? why are you just throwing away superior athletes as if they didn't run faster?

how are you admitting that cacstophe needed max legal wind to get down to 9.92 but saying that the others are 'junk'?

what are some of those 'great many reasons' for lazyeitre to be clean?

what's wrong with the particular athletes you mentioned? all except mitchel are good clean sub 10 runners and achieved a lot

by the time he got with hwmw he was already being tested, a youth world champion, ran in the olympics at 17 and never busted for anything

but yeah blacks are cheating

and having sophisticated developed antidoping systems, unlike these jamaicans, surely means you're using them fairly and not hiding anything

btw lemaitre is the best sprinter ever!

quite likely nobody on this forum has the hundreds of blood samples needed to correct you if you're wrong

bob beamon performed a long jump that's still the 2nd best ever. that was 52 years ago.

when did you prove that all sub 9.9 sprinters have doped? I understand that not everyone's capable of it naturally and want to get paid regardless... or get drugged against their will, but since when is 9.8 impossible? source?

casual obsever wrote:

Agreed. And again, Bolt is from a drug cheat group, had to return one gold medal because of a doped teammate, is from a nation with next to no OOC tests at the time, used the suspicious Healing Hans with his secret ingredients routinely, and then there was the covered-up clen scandal of the Jamaican sprint team in Beijing 2008.

Clean? All signs say no way.

That he was brilliant in his youth, explains why he is the best in this dirty sport, not that he is clean.

Maybe, but I don't believe all the 9.8 athletes are dirty. There are names on the all-time list I don't believe to be dopers. And Bolt is just a much much better athlete than them. His stride length, turn-over and speed endurance were there since he was a child.

Even Blake was only done for a stimulant which wasn't on the banned list, and it is bought over the counter as a nasal decongestant.

It is also found in many supplements, particularly pre-workout type products.

Anyway, it's all personal opinion. I choose to believe Bolt is clean. He progressed from an unbelievable junior running 20.13 as a lanky 16 year old to be an unbelievable senior.

Lol you are either a poor troll, or WAY out of your league.

I know there might be a new crop of people here, but I won’t do the work again. You can read through the archives if you want, it’s all there.

what? your assumptions and theories? that work? no thanks, there's no validity to that, just guesswork. black sprinters are superior, get to grips with reality instead of talking crazy nonsense

khorrps wrote:

by the time he got with hwmw he was already being tested, a youth world champion, ran in the olympics at 17 and never busted for anything

but yeah blacks are cheating

and having sophisticated developed antidoping systems, unlike these jamaicans, surely means you're using them fairly and not hiding anything

btw lemaitre is the best sprinter ever!

Lemaitre is not myostatin deficient. So that's impossible. You're only allowed to set a WR if you're myostatin deficient.

khorrps wrote:

by the time he got with hwmw he was already being tested, a youth world champion, ran in the olympics at 17 and never busted for anything

but yeah blacks are cheating

and having sophisticated developed antidoping systems, unlike these jamaicans, surely means you're using them fairly and not hiding anything

btw lemaitre is the best sprinter ever!

But yeah I would say Lemaitre is doing really good for a non-myostatin deficient athlete. A for effort.

khorrps wrote:

black sprinters are superior

Boy, you’re a regular genius?

The biggest and best arguments are against the 9.7x club, and then you can extrapolate from there as you so wish. The sub 9.8 club has DOCUMENTED (to address khorrps) evidence to stake a claim that none of them are legit. To a certain degree, you can maybe make some good arguments for a few guys in the 9.8s, but I was specifically making a distinction between 9.8s in general and 9.9x basic. I mean, you can be peaked out as a 9.9x basic guy and I you run a perfect race and run at altitude and get a perfect wind, then next think you know you're getting into the low 9.8s. Even a 9.99 guys could theoretically go to El Paso and end up with a 9.84 wind legal. I'm still a fan of the whole basic thing. I mean, even some (or many?) of the low grade 9.7x guys are simply mid to low 9.8 guys in basic.

The one guy here mentioned Beamon as how an outlier can exist outside the PED era to possibly explain a clean Bolt. Beamon's famous jump was, of course, in Mexico City at altitude. Beamon's mark is a legit moment and performance, but there is a context to it. Know what else happened at those Mexico City games? Hines went 9.95 for the first "official" sub 10. If you were to go with Sprintgeezers style of assertion (and I'd bet he's kind of representative of many people's feeling on the subject), Calvin Smith's 9.93 in '83 is one of the last supposed "indisputably clean" 100m Dash world records, and it was only .02 better than Hines, and done 15 years AFTER (and also run at altitude). One could could claim that the Hines 9.95 stands up very similarly to Beamon, which puts some of that outlier effect of Beamon's performance in even MORE context. The altitude and moment in Mexico bred ouliers.

The general 9.8x number shouldn't really be considered impossible in and of itself. In basic, though? I dunno, maybe.

As for Lemaitre or however you spell his damn name, did he even ever do a full on sub 10 basic? I don't like him because for as talented as he was, he never really panned out. I don't care if the reality is the last clean guy was Calvin Smith and Lemaitre, himself, was also clean. Lemiatre isn't in the running under any version of the truth of being the fastest ever. And I don't think anyone is really even making that claim, either. The thing about Lemaitre is from his 9.92, people were expecting sting him to go down from there, and that never happened. I'm glad he ran what he ran just to shut up the "white people can run sub 10" bologna, but it's not like he's that big a deal as a 100 guy. Hell, even as a 200 guy he's regrettable because....really shouldn't he have achieved more?

As for Bolt. Man, I dunno. You can think what you want, of course. But...for me the math will never add up.