They don't draft uphill at 11 mph. It is the effect of racing a guy. You are making the point that racing pulls bikers or runners. Brynn Brown would easily break 9:30 in a real race.
They don't draft uphill at 11 mph. It is the effect of racing a guy. You are making the point that racing pulls bikers or runners. Brynn Brown would easily break 9:30 in a real race.
Nah. Thst was a race with a much more traditional use of a pacer.
Right.
Using Astro's logic, Dashbach would break Webb's record of 3:53 in a time trial with perfect pacing. He just doesn't understand that a 56 second last lap only comes from race level adrenaline.
Now we are onto the "race level adrenaline" theory. Ha.
It’s not a theory. Have you never ran a race in your life? Have you never experienced that nervousness that comes before the gun goes off? Goes not, which would prove you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about
Go away rainy day wrote:
They don't draft uphill at 11 mph. It is the effect of racing a guy. You are making the point that racing pulls bikers or runners. Brynn Brown would easily break 9:30 in a real race.
Your so off base. Brown just ran the fastest she can go at this time, because she had every advantage a girl runner can have. Everything you just said is the very opposite......last night is a perfect example, Leo had to navigate throughout the race for position and the people in front of him were not trying to help him. In a race you have to go in lane 2 like he did at certain points. Because it was a race he could not hug the rail the whole time. Just this alone he actually ran faster than his time but because it was a race with competitors he ran slower than what he is capable of.
You put him in a controlled time trial like Brown with friends who will not get in your way but do everything to keep you on pace and on the rail, he runs faster than 3:59. What he did last night was very impressive as he had to navigate through the stress of the beginning of the race through the pack converging, and then navigating the last 400m going in lane 2. This is something to Go crazy about on these message boards not Brown’s fake attempt at a national record.
So far you guys have tried to pretend that being paced and draft protected by faster runners from start to finish in a 3200 would not boost a runner's time, that it is allegedly impossible for a runner to run faster in training than in an actual race despite the fact that this is common, that the pressure and stress of performing in competition under actual race conditions is somehow compensated for by an all-encompassing adrenaline effect, that such an adrenaline rush supposed cannot happen during intense training, that records should be allowed despite the absence of the slightest safeguard and despite conditions that are vastly different than actual racing conditions, etc.
In a word, nonsense. But to end this pointless bickering, have the last word if you like. :)
The mile performance was impressive.
Hats off to the officials/organizers. It appears that they checked off all of the technical boxes including measuring/marking new lane staggers plus coning the track. They even correctly placed cones at the 1/4 split points even though they are only a shift of approximately 2.3 m forward from the start.
Well done all the way around.
7empest wrote:
Go away rainy day wrote:
They don't draft uphill at 11 mph. It is the effect of racing a guy. You are making the point that racing pulls bikers or runners. Brynn Brown would easily break 9:30 in a real race.
Your so off base. Brown just ran the fastest she can go at this time, because she had every advantage a girl runner can have. Everything you just said is the very opposite......last night is a perfect example, Leo had to navigate throughout the race for position and the people in front of him were not trying to help him. In a race you have to go in lane 2 like he did at certain points. Because it was a race he could not hug the rail the whole time. Just this alone he actually ran faster than his time but because it was a race with competitors he ran slower than what he is capable of.
You put him in a controlled time trial like Brown with friends who will not get in your way but do everything to keep you on pace and on the rail, he runs faster than 3:59. What he did last night was very impressive as he had to navigate through the stress of the beginning of the race through the pack converging, and then navigating the last 400m going in lane 2. This is something to Go crazy about on these message boards not Brown’s fake attempt at a national record.
And no one responded to the post below that I posted on the other Brown thread, and that is because anyone who knows about racing and these athletes knows it’s true. Brown is not a good racer with elite competition.
“Here’s the truth. If Brown was in a 3200m race with Starliper and Dudek she would not have come close to this time. She would have no chance because she would be setting the pace and she would leading and expending energy, and it would be very ugly for Brown the last 400m when Starliper and Dudek blow by her and they sprint to the finish! This is how a race is different, Brown has zero speed and the kickers who have endurance and strength like Dudek and Starliper, will sit and kick to win and in the process may go sub 9:47 for Tuohy’s record. Brown would just be the perfect rabbit for them like Hart was at Footlocker. Dudek and Starliper ran the 5th and 6th fastest times at Footlocker after Hart went out hard and lead for over two miles. With only a CC and indoor season this year, Dudek and Starliper had the best year if you combine indoor and CC. The two best athletes of this year of running.
No one has said that drafting and pacing has no effect, we just disagree on the net effect of it. If you can give me one example, with sufficient evidence before the coronavirus shut everything down, of a documented runner with viewable PR’s, without injury or health being a factor, running faster than their PR in a workout, and then not coming close to that workout performance for the rest of that season, I might believe you. So go on and search
Nonexistent. I can't get kids to run within 20 seconds of their 3200 meter PRs in workouts with pacers. I really believe that Brown would break 9:30 in a race.
My point exactly...because no one has!
Go away rainy day wrote:
Nonexistent. I can't get kids to run within 20 seconds of their 3200 meter PRs in workouts with pacers. I really believe that Brown would break 9:30 in a race.
No way!!!!!!! Read my last post. You are so Far out in left field
Your last post has nothing to do with the conversation. So what if she gets outkicked. Sounds like a you problem, not a me problem.
cheesewiz wrote:
Your last post has nothing to do with the conversation. So what if she gets outkicked. Sounds like a you problem, not a me problem.
It has everything to do with the conversation!!!!! The stupid comment that Brown would run 9:30 in a race is ridiculous. The race I talked about would maybe only produce a sub 9:47 (a second or two at best). Pay attention!!!
The other runners have better kicks but that doesn't matter if they are 150 meters behind Brown.
Queen of the World wrote:
The other runners have better kicks but that doesn't matter if they are 150 meters behind Brown.
Everyone please follow logic. Brown is a horrible pacer as her 1600m workout clearly showed and her races have shown. Her coach knows she cannot pace which is why she could not solo a time trial and he brought in college runners to help her run a time she cannot run on her own or in a race. Her own interview on milesplit she said she was dying the last two laps. The pace was to fast for her and she would not have been able to run the the first six at that pace without friends helping her. She would not be 150m ahead of Dudek or Starliper who are better athletes.
No. She is an absolute strength runner which automatically makes her a good pacer because she can just push close to redline the entire way much like Nico Young. Runners like Hart have to be more careful about not busting out a 67 to start a 3200.
She still crossed the line at 9:39, doesn’t matter how you feel when you do it. Kind of a silly argument if you ask me, and we aren’t discussing comparing her to other runners, too much extrapolation.