why does David Roche keep banging on about being in sub-4 at altitude shape?

And cyclists as well.

The author doesn't talk about big names in athletics who do heat training (or how they approach it) - although in his article the author does say how to do heat training safely, and I'd guess most elite athletes who use heat training follow professional protocols because they don't want to end up with heat stroke! I've not seen Jornet or Ingebrigsten promoting CORE sensors or doing heat training in the way Roche does. Roche being Roche has taken it to an unnecessary extreme.

The author is asking why is Roche - who professes to be a coach first and an athlete second - promoting a dangerous version of heat training (DIY or unregulated/unsupervised heat suit training) that Roche knows provides only very small gains in some people, and yet has very big risks. He must know that runners will copy what he's doing because he is exaggerating the benefits and down-playing the risks.

Roche is also promoting CORE body temperature sensors in the same videos - and those things don't work - they under-estimate at higher body temperatures (which is really dangerous of course). All of which seems very irresponsible for a coach.

Killian also uses the Core, which would indicate it probably does work.

David has one of his best mountain long runs today! 17 miles, about a mile of vertical gain and even on trails.

I don't think Roche cares so much about "the science" or what could hurt people. He likes to project this image that he is this mad scientist and has discovered "new" and exciting things though.

The reality is that I think he's most interested in gaining validation and getting kudos for being "motivating" and "inspirational". It's under the guise of being a source of training information and repackaging tried and true training and racing concepts that have been around for decades (heat training, eating a lot of carbs etc). He's reinvented the wheel.

But his main schmick is also tricking other runners into believing that he is always "the underdog" or "the victim" and buying into the SWAP cult. Today it's about him.....I mean Icarus!!

From his Strava workout caption today:

"Everyone forgets that Icarus also flew 🧡💜💙♥️
The stories that inspire me aren’t the straightforward triumphs. It’s what happens before and after that. Life is messy and non-linear. Running is messy and non-linear. I think that’s what people mean when they say running is like life.
I just had one of my best mountain training days ever, coming off an amazing training week. It seems like I’m in the clear with my knee (for now). Thank you so much for being there for the messy few weeks I went through after the 50 miler. I try to share the crap (and the fleeting triumph) while I’m going through it, and I think the support I got in the low points is why I’m starting to believe I can temporarily overcome gravity heading into Western States.
Based on some of the weirder messages I get, I know there are people out there who see how I try to be authentic in the world and who hate what they see. They are rooting for a fall.
Good. At some point, I will fall, and I will talk about that too. To me, the triumph is trying to fly in the first place.
Anything worth doing is worth doing badly. Do something badly enough, openly enough, for long enough… and who knows what happens.
All I know for sure is that my spreadsheet says 14:low. Over the last 36 years, by body has failed (temporarily ended its triumph), my mind has failed (temporarily ended its triumph), my courage has failed (temporarily ended its triumph).
But my spreadsheet has yet to fail. Let’s give Icarus a spreadsheet and a community, and let’s see what happens 🙏
•••""

"14- low."..you heard it here first (never mind what the weather could be on WS100 race day!). I can't think of any person that tries so hard to be authentic and relatable, but ironically becomes even more inauthentic in pretty much everything they do.

Weird mine says 17 kinda in the middle.

And that's exactly how tech companies sell worthless wearables to the uninformed masses. These grifters realize that most people are far more likely to believe what a famous person says about a product than what an expert has to say. Understanding what the experts (in this case, research scientists) are saying requires people to use their brains. It's like Tom Brady's Infrared Pajamas. No one in their right mind would dream of buying such rubbish - but bring in Tom Brady, and hey presto, I'll take a few pairs! If Jornet is using CORE it's because CORE pay him a lot of money to lie on their behalf. Maurten pay Jornet a LOT of money to promote a completely useless supplement - the Maurten Bicarb System - so it wouldn't be too surprising to learn he's also promoting CORE.

The independent scientific testing that's been done on the CORE sensor is unanimous. It doesn't work. It's an expensive, and potentially dangerous, gimmick.

You pretty much nailed it! Roche talks about 'precision science' but doesn't seem to understand the science at all. If he were to take a step back and read the research and critically evaluate it, like a good coach should, he'd realize much of what he's promoting is junk. It is quite a coincidence that so many of his training methods have a product attached that just happens to be sold by The Feed (high carb, CORE, ketones, bicarb, etc).

I think Ross Tucker summed up Roche's approach to training quite well in his end of year podcast - he called it 'shotgun science'. Roche is everything we should have learnt by now not to trust - he's arrogant, he's greedy, he's a liar and he's addicted to attention. Despite this, it's hard to hate him. He is so transparent in his self interest that I kind of respect him. He's the Ron L. Hubbard of coaching.

Predicting 14hrs is just another way to keep the money train going full steam ahead.

Strongly disagree. I find hating him comes quite naturally. He is a lolcow, though, so it's much more redeeming to watch him fail, which is what most of us on this thread are rooting for come Western States.

Yep. This is the whole premise of Santara Tech and the Norwegian triathletes and tri coach.

also, have the recent youtube videos been worth watching? i stopped watching after the snow angel hill reps vid.

Listening to a podcast about running fads and they turned the topics on nasal strips. They've came to the conclusion that they have no real benefit, but if you like how they feel, then use them.

The host commented, "So aren't they just like gaslighting yourself?"

And I realized they weren't really talking about nasal strips...

Megs, get in here and save ya boy. You know better than to let him have the mic solo. Latest podcast has David back on the hype train.

”My running economy will be the best on the Western States starting line…”

”I’m the best technical downhill runner in the world outside of Kilian…”

Parents, this is what happens when you raise your children in a world steeped in fantasy. Not only could David have been a professional baseball player, football player or cyclist; now he’s convinced that he’s one of the world’s best mountain runners, despite failing miserably at it years ago.

Goodness. I would wager large sums of money that he's not close to the best technical runner in Boulder. Green, Bear, and Sanitas downhills are right there on Strava, David. Where are you?

Wait he really said this posts in his podcast? Can we get some timestamps for those?

If he really said that it just shows how delusional (or how much of a liar) he really is.

I don't think David has even raced on a 'technical trail' in his life. Most of his miles around Boulder seem be around the res from the dirt roads around his house or on his treadmill or the track or the roads of sunshine to 4-mile or mags.

And 'best running economy'? at what pace and gradient? I hope he gets served some humble pie at western. But they should also for sure drug test him sooner rather than later.

who's "they"? no one is drug testing him. WS doesn't care. And his wife is a medical research director for the race, whatever that means.

USADA. Can we look up a possible TUE history?

It just seems like he's been somewhat nonchalant about dopers in endurance sport (re: cycling). Plus says he supports biological males competing as females and claims that that is fair because of "science." So I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities that he could be pushing some gray area stuff/TUEs and justifying it using some twisted logic. His wife is certainly in a position of power there also imo

David Roche had a cortisone shot.

Here is what David Millar (one of the top TTers in cycling at his best) had to say about cortisone:

theguardian.com

Cortisone in cycling: from the Nobel prize to Bradley Wiggins via Lance Armstrong

https://www.theguardian.com/profile/suze-clemitson

The discovery of cortisone earned three scientists a Nobel prize in 1950, brought relief to people across the world and changed the game in cycling

Open link

Millar calls it the most potent drug he used in his career.

I've had a cortisone shot and it made me feel high for around a month afterwards. Didn't strip the weight off me though.

Maybe i'm missing something but why would USADA test him? at least recently, doesn't seem he's competing in the realm they care about.

See and that's the problem in ultra running. It's still the wild west and USADA does NADA.