Mr. Renato Canova: Could You Please Answer a Question About Effective Ways to Improve the Lactate Threshold?

If people had bothered to read his rhetoric about training even 2-3 years ago on letsrun.com you would see that he was he not remotely versed in theories other than Lydiardism, which is fine. He ...or more likely Kyle Heffner... created versions of previous explained formulae about a year and half ago after reading and putting together bits and pieces from Jack Daniels, Owen Anderson, Peak Performance authors, and from my creations.

The whole point is ridiculous. Some people have incredible belief in Kellog because they conceive his is a maverick in training methodology; when he isn't. Just because he has coached some of those guys doesn't mean he is the one who created the methodology he recently wrote about. I take no credit away from his coaching of runners. I respect that. I respect anyone who works hard to help his or her runners perform better. However, I find two things quite disturbing.

1) Kellog lacks admittance that he begged, borrowed, or stole from others training ideas and methods of late. All he had to do was cite his sources. Simple as that and the discourse would be over! Otherwise, he is plagarizing; smoke screening.

2) People blindly have believed that Kellog is great; thinking he is some master of creating training methods; which is not true. He is not the creator of anything other than his version of Arthur Lydiard's training. If people believe in him because he is a good coach of runners, that is different, plausible and fine. If they believe he is a science-genius creating great training ideas when all he did was taking existing methods and change the name of them, then it is simply sad. Perhaps I should change the theory of general relativity to the theory of of variances of perception by position. Who the heck is Albert Einstein anyway?

I will conclude my presentation and rebuttals soon because the same cyclical arguments will arise based on emotion rather than logic. All one has to do is look at the facts. Tinman

After seeing that this thread had gone over the 2,000 mark, I figured that I'd check to see what was being discussed. I was surprised to discover that the radiology technician named "Tinman" is still accusing the shoe salesman named "JK" of "plagarizing" [sic].

Shouldn't this thread be focused on the ideas of real coaches like Canova and Cabral?

Tinman wrote:

1) Kellog lacks admittance that he begged, borrowed, or stole from others training ideas and methods of late. All he had to do was cite his sources. Simple as that and the discourse would be over! Otherwise, he is plagarizing; smoke screening.

Tinman

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

odq RE: What does ananerobic training do physiolocially? 5/18/2004 12:58AM - in reply to Tinman

Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

________________________________________

Tinman wrote:

I often avoid recommending lactic acid training, completely, to distance runners. Most do not need it. Most need some power increase in their running strides, but that can be increased through short, fast hill reps or fast striders or sprints. I never, every recommend lactic acid work in the last three weeks prior to a peak race for distance runners. I usually have them do LT reps and 150-200m striders, but only about 3-4 reps. That is it. Tinman

________________________________________

That is taken directly from Daniels' Running Formula

heres the thread

All I can say is WOW

Anonymous Poster wrote:

After seeing that this thread had gone over the 2,000 mark, I figured that I'd check to see what was being discussed. I was surprised to discover that the radiology technician named "Tinman" is still accusing the shoe salesman named "JK" of "plagarizing" [sic].

Shouldn't this thread be focused on the ideas of real coaches like Canova and Cabral?

Well Im glad someone (tinman) is taking responsibility for America sucking at running. Congrats Tinman Im glad JK stole your ideas and made the US such a distance powerhouse. Maybe he should have stole ideas from Renato instead.

hi...

I just wanted to be a part of the worlds largest thread

post #2013

Tinman you continually infuriate me with your posting style, you seem obsessed with your own status, and I would argue that it is you who considers your self some coaching maverick, and scientific craetive genius.

"To copy from one source is plagersim, to copy from many sources is research"

If you were really the nice helpful guy you are always trying to tell us you are, you would support Kellog in his coaching role af aiding runners to run and fast as they can instead of obsessing over who stole whose ideas.

If you are going to accuse me of also stealing, then at least know what you are talking about. If anyone is to get credit for my general philosopy it is the late Arthur Lydiard, not Dr. Daniels. (I respect Jack, so don't get me wrong). I never heard of Jack in the early 1979-81 when I formed my opinions about peaking for distance runners.

I will give credit to my junior high school coach in the 70s when he coached me that way. I just created more specifics about paces that were not part of Lydiard or my junior high school track coach's parlance. Once again, I will give credit to Dr. Alois Mader and Dr. Madsen of Germany for explaining how they trained swimmers in the late 60s and early 70s in Swimming Technique magazine and in the European Journal of Applied Physiology. They are the ones that introduced me to the idea of lactate threshold. I will give credit to my junior high science teacher who gave me several copies of the Journal of Applied Physiology to read in 1978. In those articles were technical studies done on anaerobic threshold by Dr. Holman of Germany as far back as 1959. I will thank my junior high math teacher for giving me his calculator so that I could make heads and tales of what all the various numbers meant. Using his guidance, I used algebra to figure out correlative relationships between peformances listed in Track & Field News. Finally, I would like to that my high school chemistry and advanced biology teacher for making write a paper entitled: "Training Distance Runners Using Science and Mathematics." Hopefully you get the point that I cite references. I give credit to those who created concepts. This is how it is supposed to be done. It is the proper thing to do, wouldn't you agree? Tinman

Gosh, you're so smart. Since it's been 25 years since you "formed [your] opinions about peaking for distance runners," could you direct us to some of your published articles and books on training, or the names of some of the great runners that you've coached, or perhaps some of your own accomplishments in the sport? As for citing references, don't you think that you should cite the books that you rely on for anecdotes about runners that you've never even met?

There are people all over the world, in all areas of scholarship and achievement, who believe that they've thought of stuff that nobody else has, and who are bitter about their lack of recognition in the world at large.

Tinman is honest in what he is saying. He has immense respect for JD and credits him when appropriate, just as he appreciates the same respect.

Agreed. If someone asked "Who is JK?" people would immediately answer "John Kellogg, of course," and could name a number of athletes he's coached, for better or for worse, as well as some material the man has published. If someone asked "Who is jtupper?" people would immediately answer "Jack Daniels, of course," and could name a number of athletes he's coached, for better or for worse, as well as some material the man has published. If someone asked, "Who is Renato Canova?" people would...you get the point. But ask people here "Who is Tinman, whom has he coached, and what exactly has he published?" and everyone here - save, perhaps, for a select few - would be left scratching their heads.

JK and others are certainly open to criticism, but uncredentialed, anonymous Internet posters, no matter how informed and helpful they may be or seem, are in no position to blast people for supposedly lifting their ideas.

By the way, I invented the Harry Potter character. He appeared in a short story I wrote in grade 6 in 1987 under a different name, and my portrayal made him seem a little less of a bookish fagboy, but it was definitely Harry. JK Rowland owes me a bundle!

trackhead: Thank you.

Folks, I will drop it because this a "John Kellog" website. I don't know why I bothered to return to letsrun.com. Integrity is a lost value in America. Tinman

you have now come to the end of the internet. there is no more.

sumguy41 wrote:

hi...

I just wanted to be a part of the worlds largest thread

Me2!!!

Bono, in reference to short hills:

What happens if you don't take the full 2-3 min. rest. What if you really just don't have time to make short hills a 45 minute workout? It there a negative effect if you only rest 1-2 minutes?

Tinman you seems to me you need a drink from that oil can bc your ideas are a bit rusty.

Dont question the integrity of Americans either. you cheap peice of metal. Go back to OZ and play with the munchkins.

let's go for 3000!!!!

Tom, seriously, you need to get over yourself. You have a lot of potential, but you are still relatively young for a coach.

Please try to move ahead in a more positive manner without these silly personal attacks. It is a very big turn off for me and for others who appreciate the good work that you, Jack Daniels, John Kellogg and others have done.

Tinman wrote:

Folks, I will drop it because this a "John Kellog" website. I don't know why I bothered to return to letsrun.com. Integrity is a lost value in America. Tinman

Can you SPELL self-pity?

The fact that EVERYONE disagrees with you should tell you something.

You have ZERO evidence. That's called SLANDER. Post some evidence, OR DON'T EVER BRING IT UP AT ALL.