Two More Kenyans Provisionally Suspended For Doping Violations

Coevett, I can confirm that NEVER Florence and Joyce had ONE SESSION WITH WORKOUTS TOGETHER.

Training partner means that, living both in Iten, maybe had the opportunity (no more than few times) to meet on the same road, and to run some km together.

THIS MEANS FOR KENYA TO BE TRAININBG PARTNERS, because in Iten there are one thousand athletes, maybe 20 different groups, and it's normal to run together the easy run (NOT THE WORKOUTS), because the roads are the same for everybody, and everybody knows many other athletes.

The same is to say that athletes of the same Country, who trains in different places and with different coaches, are "training partners" because before some Championships stay together for two weeks in the official training camp of the Federation, several times under a coach that is not the coach of the athletes themselves.

Try to know how the athletic world works, instead to move every stupid infor in the direction that is more commod for you.

Canova:

Thoughts on Zane Robertson preformance and his training?

Swing and a miss.

Coevett wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

It will interest me if you can get beyond these hypotheses...

It's a hypothesis ...

Renato, please stop trying to tell us the E. Africans are clean. Officials are so desperate to keep the sham going they're tossing a few sacrifices to the wolves while attempting to keep the big starts protected. Sure, there's a lot of talented E. Africans, but the numbers are inflated by the drug use, never mind the performances. Despite propaganda to the contrary, drugs are more easily obtained in third world nations, as you are well aware.

rekrunner wrote:

Then I think you don't know what my claim is.

A reminder of my claim:

Africans aren't setting records like Geb and Komen in the 1990s and like El G and Bekele in the 2000s, but when you look a little deeper, say the number of top performances per decade, there are still a significant number of fast performances:

In the 1500m, 14 of the top 50 all time performances are from this decade

Ngeny running 5x times doesn't refute "14 of the top 50" in this decade.

Subway Surfers wrote:

If Ngeny running 3:28 on five occasions isn't a refutation of Rekrunner's claim then I don't know what is.

Or the glass is actually half-empty and 36 of the top 50 aren't from this decade. Of those from this decade, virtually all of them are from the bogus Monaco track, you know near where the IAAF is headquartered, your place of employment.

rekrunner wrote:

With respect to "EPO doesn't work" -- I don't know -- I don't know which of these top-50 performances were under the influence of EPO, nor if it worked, so would not like to comment one way or another beyond saying -- I don't know.

Um look for the name Asbel Kiprop on the list.

rekrunner wrote:

Swing and a miss.

Coevett wrote:

It's a hypothesis ...

Stop obfuscating you shill. This is all we can do. A hypothesis that best fits the facts.

Coevett wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Swing and a miss.

Stop obfuscating you shill. This is all we can do. A hypothesis that best fits the facts.

Your hypothesis is based on accusing innocents. Not valid.

Found him. I don't know which of his performances were under the influence of EPO, nor if it worked.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Um look for the name Asbel Kiprop on the list.

Either way, it doesn't refute my claim. The original claim said nothing about times not slowing down because of the Monaco track. You are moving the goalposts.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Or the glass is actually half-empty and 36 of the top 50 aren't from this decade. Of those from this decade, virtually all of them are from the bogus Monaco track, you know near where the IAAF is headquartered, your place of employment.

This is basically what I said...

Coevett wrote:

... This is all we can do. A hypothesis ...

rekrunner wrote:

Found him. I don't know which of his performances were under the influence of EPO, nor if it worked.

Subway Surfers wrote:

Um look for the name Asbel Kiprop on the list.

C'mon rekrunner...you're being obstinate! Kiprop's warp speed 3:26.69 is only one of three guys ever to run under 3:27 in the history of the sport! We have two very highly suspicious guys in El G & Lagat running the 1st & 2nd fastest all-time and you think confirmed doper Kiprop didn't run his time under the influence of EPO? ?

Renato Canova wrote:

Coevett, I can confirm that NEVER Florence and Joyce had ONE SESSION WITH WORKOUTS TOGETHER.

Training partner means that, living both in Iten, maybe had the opportunity (no more than few times) to meet on the same road, and to run some km together.

THIS MEANS FOR KENYA TO BE TRAININBG PARTNERS, because in Iten there are one thousand athletes, maybe 20 different groups, and it's normal to run together the easy run (NOT THE WORKOUTS), because the roads are the same for everybody, and everybody knows many other athletes.

Can you clarify then what was said by Chepkirui when she and her husband/coach were interviewed prior to the 2014 Prague HM:

@ 50 secs into the interview: The interviewer states that "I know you're in the same training group as the WR holder in the HM Florence Kiplagat back home in Kenya" and proceeds to tell her that Kiplagat thinks she can run fast, and he asks her "just how fast can you run?" Chepkirui doesn't deny that she's in same training group and answers the question.

@ 3:31 into the interview: The interview reiterates that Chepkirui is in the same training group with "Florence" and also "Mary Kitany" and proceeds to ask her "are you racing each other in training?" Chepkirui responds "sometimes we are training together but have a big group." Then she goes on to say there are men in the group and that they assist each other.

Common sense doctrine in listening to the interview is that Chepkirui is in the "same training group" with Kiplagat and sometimes they even race each other in training.

It is one possibility. Again, my only response is -- I don't know. Your suspicions do not add knowledge.

Let's have some group therapy wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

Found him. I don't know which of his performances were under the influence of EPO, nor if it worked.

C'mon rekrunner...you're being obstinate! Kiprop's warp speed 3:26.69 is only one of three guys ever to run under 3:27 in the history of the sport! We have two very highly suspicious guys in El G & Lagat running the 1st & 2nd fastest all-time and you think confirmed doper Kiprop didn't run his time under the influence of EPO? ?

rekrunner wrote:

It is one possibility.

Again, my only response is -- I don't know.

Your suspicions do not add knowledge.

Let's have some group therapy wrote:

C'mon rekrunner...you're being obstinate! Kiprop's warp speed 3:26.69 is only one of three guys ever to run under 3:27 in the history of the sport! We have two very highly suspicious guys in El G & Lagat running the 1st & 2nd fastest all-time and you think confirmed doper Kiprop didn't run his time under the influence of EPO? ?

But we do have "knowledge" that Kiprop is a confirmed EPO user and was the only one that could run down confirmed CERA user Ramzi at Beijing (who was doped to the gill). Have you noticed the separation these two put on the other world-class runners? I can't imagine Willis as well as all of the other guys having a bad race or not bringing their "A" game to the world's biggest stage that night. Even someone who doesn't follow T&F would think there's something not right about that race.

You're a smart guy rekrunner, so I don't think you're that naive to think Kiprop just started doping at the tail end of his career. ?

Taking this limited knowledge fully into consideration, my response is: I don't know which of his performances were under the influence of EPO, nor if it worked.

Let's have some group therapy wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

It is one possibility.

Again, my only response is -- I don't know.

Your suspicions do not add knowledge.

But we do have "knowledge" that Kiprop is a confirmed EPO user and was the only one that could run down confirmed CERA user Ramzi at Beijing (who was doped to the gill). Have you noticed the separation these two put on the other world-class runners? I can't imagine Willis as well as all of the other guys having a bad race or not bringing their "A" game to the world's biggest stage that night. Even someone who doesn't follow T&F would think there's something not right about that race.

You're a smart guy rekrunner, so I don't think you're that naive to think Kiprop just started doping at the tail end of his career. ?

rekrunner wrote:

This is basically what I said...

Coevett wrote:

... This is all we can do. A hypothesis ...

So you're admitting you're a paid shill here whose only purpose is to make real discussion impossible?

Again - some hypotheses are better supported by the facts than others.

You keep asking me to 'move beyond hypothesis' and now you've just admitted it's close to impossible.

This the real world and we're here to put forward our reasonable opinions supported by facts and evidence. All you do is psuedo-scientifically play around with statistics that are skewed to support whichever doping apologist position you want to take (namely that EPO doesn't work). You appear to almost devote yourself full-time to these efforts to 'prove' that EPO doesn't work - through statistics -and then when we point to our own statistics that show Kenyan times declining in parallel with doping busts, or new improvements to anti-doping standards, you turn round and claim that all these are merely 'hypotheses'. Yes we know that, just like it's a hypothesis that the sun will rise tomorrow, but it's a better hypothesis than it wont. All we can do is discuss which hypothesis is most plausible. If you think this is a meaningless exercise, why have you published volumes of text here over a number of years trying to support your own 'hypothesis' that only yourself, Canova, and maybe a handful of other people in the entire world believe?

You're like one of these Flat Earther weirdos constantly challenging people to 'prove' the earth is round, whilst thinking he's smug and clever rather than suffering from some kind of disorder.

I could say the same thing: I'm just putting forward my reasonable opinions supported by facts and evidence. How is it OK for you to do it, but a problem for you when I do it? If your purpose is real discussion, my real world observations are a part of that purpose. Since some of you are unable to discuss against the merits of my opinions, you resort to making stuff up, not only by revising or ignoring history, or revising my arguments, or fabricating arguments I never made, but also about my person. Just correcting five lies in your opening statement: 1)I am not a shill; 2) I am not paid to post; 3) I admitted no such thing; 4) My purpose is real discussion based on facts and evidence; 5) It's all these off topic lies that make real discussion impossible. I counted at least 5 more lies in the rest of your post. With respect to flat-earth, my position is strikingly similar: flat-earth is an unproven hypothesis, supported by selected "facts and evidence". As a model, it is incomplete, and flat-earthers are drawing the very same conclusions that they are assuming. They are unable to make an affirmative argument moving beyond their hypothesis, so they resort to making up lies about the globe earth, and about leading scientists and organizations like NASA.

Maybe that "Common sense doctrine in listening to the interview is that Chepkirui is in the "same training group" with Kiplagat and sometimes they even race each other in training", but common sense is not something connected with the interviews of the most part of Kenyan athletes.

About Florence, she always refused to run with some other woman, training everytime with 2-3 men, pacing her.

About Mary Keitany, she was coached from 2008 till 2016 by the Italian Gabriele Nicola, working with the management of Gianni Demadonna, who organized a very good group of women marathon runners, with 4 different men as pacers, and NEVER Joyce was part of that group, including Agnes Kiprop, Filomena Chipchirchir, Sharon Cherop, Hellen Kiprop, Lydia Cheromei. The husband of Joyce was her coach, and never was interested to discuss about training and to share some workout with other ladies.

You can't understand Kenya and Kenyan, seated in front of a computer in United States, reading from the interviews of the athletes in Kenyan newspapers.