410 Gone wrote:
Jonathan Gault wrote:
FYI, Emma has weighed in about why she's not skeptical of Frerichs:
https://twitter.com/emmajcoburn/status/1039589405374210051This twit has been deleted.
Probably her shoe sponsors (judged by LRC and agents at quite a high amount, thanks to World Championship status presumably) had their lawyers advise this.
El Keniano wrote:
Hyvin Kiyeng has this annoying sideways tilt over barriers that I think costs her valuable time and energy. If she could work on that, she too could go sub 8:50.
http://medias.photodeck.com/043d611d-7ba5-475a-9700-398eb03c5a1f/az_beijing_day05_1592a_xgaplus.jpghttps://ioneglobalgrind.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/14712855436779.jpg?quality=85&strip=allhttp://dailysport.co.ke/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Beatrice-Chepkoech-clears-the-hrdle-followed-by-Hyvin-Kiyeng.jpg
kenyans are natural runners and natural jumpers. they dont need to waste time "learning" how to hurdle they just do it. I think traditional hurdle technique is suitable for the sprints but for the steeple is may be less efficient to hurdle than to just jump.
so many questions wrote:
My main issue with this video is the following:
1.) Are we assuming that an 8:45 steeple isn't attainable by a female without doping? Coburn seems to think it's possible, but doesn't believe that Chepkoech is the person to do it (clean)
2.) If it is attainable by a clean athlete, a person with Chepkoech's flat-track PR's would make sense as she's run 4:02/8:28/14:39, which are not out-of-this-world times for an elite flat-track female distance runner (see Simpson, Houlihan, etc. on the US side).
So are we assuming that everyone who runs these times is dirty across the board, or just Chepkoech? And if so, why just her? She progressed down to 9:10 in 2016 when she started to take the steeple seriously, then ran around 9 minutes (including one sub-9) 4 times in 2017, then in 2018 (despite Coburn saying "I don't think you can run 8:45 when you've been running 9 minutes all season" ) Chepkoech ran 8 steeplechase races. She won 7, two were at altitude in Kenya, 3 were sub 9.
Obviously we don't know if Chepkoech is clean. The same as we don't know if Frerich's or Houlihan are clean (or even Coburn for that matter). I would argue that regardless if her 8:45 is clean, we can reasonably assume that females running 8:30-8:35 and 14:40-50 clean could absolutely destroy the 9 minute barrier. And as we know, Coburn would not be close to world class in any event outside of the steeple, so who is to say that a world-class type 3k/5k runner with decent form (and low barriers) couldn't clean up in the steeple?
Emma has reached her max potential as a runner. She knows it and is just crying.
(despite Coburn saying "I don't think you can run 8:45 when you've been running 9 minutes all season"
The variation is usually even more than this. Sit-n-kick versus PB/WR type conditions and some incentive to go for it.
Drug tested 52 times a year!!! WOW. wrote:
casual obsever wrote:
Not likely,
So she's lost even more credibility and sympathy unless she can prove that she and Courtney have been "drug tested on average once a week" (as per her tweet) which adds up to 52 a year and doesn't really help her attempts to implicate Chepkoech. Perhaps she means average for the last two weeks.
https://twitter.com/emmajcoburn/status/1039589405374210051?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.letsrun.com%2Fforum%2Fflat_read.php%3Fthread%3D9004269%26page%3D7
The tweet's been deleted, so she's lost even more credibility:
1. Because she lied about the "drug tested on average once a week".
2. Because she's implicating Chepkoech in doping with no proof, just pure speculation.
Makes Emma's believability fairly now.
bee bop wrote:
so many questions wrote:
My main issue with this video is the following:
1.) Are we assuming that an 8:45 steeple isn't attainable by a female without doping? Coburn seems to think it's possible, but doesn't believe that Chepkoech is the person to do it (clean)
2.) If it is attainable by a clean athlete, a person with Chepkoech's flat-track PR's would make sense as she's run 4:02/8:28/14:39, which are not out-of-this-world times for an elite flat-track female distance runner (see Simpson, Houlihan, etc. on the US side).
So are we assuming that everyone who runs these times is dirty across the board, or just Chepkoech? And if so, why just her? She progressed down to 9:10 in 2016 when she started to take the steeple seriously, then ran around 9 minutes (including one sub-9) 4 times in 2017, then in 2018 (despite Coburn saying "I don't think you can run 8:45 when you've been running 9 minutes all season" ) Chepkoech ran 8 steeplechase races. She won 7, two were at altitude in Kenya, 3 were sub 9.
Obviously we don't know if Chepkoech is clean. The same as we don't know if Frerich's or Houlihan are clean (or even Coburn for that matter). I would argue that regardless if her 8:45 is clean, we can reasonably assume that females running 8:30-8:35 and 14:40-50 clean could absolutely destroy the 9 minute barrier. And as we know, Coburn would not be close to world class in any event outside of the steeple, so who is to say that a world-class type 3k/5k runner with decent form (and low barriers) couldn't clean up in the steeple?
Emma has reached her max potential as a runner. She knows it and is just crying.
This! And she's no longer even the best American steepler. She is World Champion (due to a calamitous race for Beatrice) and expected to bask in some that glory for a while with all the the spotlight on her. A little difficult, perhaps, when you can't win another international race. Like the Aussie speed skater who won Olympic gold after a pile up in front of him. Cool viral story, but no real respect.
Hero to Zero. wrote:
[quote]Drug tested 52 times a year!!! WOW. wrote:
[quote]casual obsever wrote:
Makes Emma's believability fairly now.
"Makes Emma's believability fairly" low or zero "now".
Hero to Zero. wrote:
Drug tested 52 times a year!!! WOW. wrote:
So she's lost even more credibility and sympathy unless she can prove that she and Courtney have been "drug tested on average once a week" (as per her tweet) which adds up to 52 a year and doesn't really help her attempts to implicate Chepkoech. Perhaps she means average for the last two weeks.
https://twitter.com/emmajcoburn/status/1039589405374210051?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.letsrun.com%2Fforum%2Fflat_read.php%3Fthread%3D9004269%26page%3D7The tweet's been deleted, so she's lost even more credibility:
1. Because she lied about the "drug tested on average once a week".
2. Because she's implicating Chepkoech in doping with no proof, just pure speculation.
Makes Emma's believability fairly now.
I'm now convinced she's a Trump voter/supporter. I also understand this is something that will be viewed favourably and as sign of good character on these boards given how it skews. I have no evidence other than circumstantial based on words and behaviour, but I'm only mentioning it is because it explains her approach somewhat. I'm not denying her right to be suspicious, that's human, but the vicious personal attack on Beatrice without a shred of evidence whilst rationalising an even more drastic improvement by her compatriot not only flies against logic, but hints at a certain bias.
^ Post above was in response to the deleted tweet, by the way, which I didn't see. What did she say? And why did she delete it?
American Evan Jager runs fast and tests as "Likely Doping" under the ABP: Just a mix-up, clearly he never cheated
American Ajee Wilson runs fast and tests positive for steroids: It was tainted meat, not her fault, clearly she never cheated
African who has lived their whole life at altitude runs fast with no evidence of doping: They must be cheating
I don't know how this is far different from what I posted? The gap between Chepkoech and Coburn over 3k is probably less than that, indoors wouldn't suit the bigger athlete. The point being made on here by apologists is that Chepkoech is faster over other events and perhaps it is Coburn doping. The problems with this is 1) perhaps Chepkoech is doping for these other events as well 2) Coburn is tall for a female runner and the hurdles take very little out of her. T&F is dirty, the thought Chepkoech could blitz Jebet’s WR and be clean is very unlikely. Though Frerichs and Coburn are approaching the doped up Russian's times.
Most here don't understand the meaning of ad hominem. Coburn questioned the validity of Chepkoech's performance. That ain't ad hominem. Accusing Coburn of jealousy is. But that's easier than defending a questionable performance. So keep it up, guys.
In a doper era - which is where we are, folks - all elite performances must be questionable. Doesn't matter who. So no performance - or time - run by one athlete can validate the performance of another. There ain't a control experiment we know we can rely on for comparison. Except for maybe some guys in the 1960's.
Livstrong7 wrote:
Most here don't understand the meaning of ad hominem. Coburn questioned the validity of Chepkoech's performance. That ain't ad hominem. Accusing Coburn of jealousy is. But that's easier than defending a questionable performance. So keep it up, guys.
IDIOT, go get a definition of 'ad hominem' then go back and see/listen to what Coburn said.
Subway Surfers wrote:
The gap between Chepkoech and Coburn over 3k is probably less than that, indoors wouldn't suit the bigger athlete. ...2) Coburn is tall for a female runner and the hurdles take very little out of her.
Chepkoech is 170 cm (5'7") and 54kg (119lb)
Coburn is 173cm (5'8") and 54kg (120lb).
I guess that extra inch-n-pound makes all the difference to you?
2) Coburn is tall for a female runner and the hurdles take very little out of her.
Independent of how "tall" she is, according to the energy analysis, they in fact do comparatively slow her. Whether it's poor form, shorter legs than you imagine or what, navigating the jumps is not 100% natural to her.
Also, Jebet and Jepkemoi may be quite small in stature, but not Chepkoech.
Zaripova was 175cm and 70kg.
But then her results are said to be due to "doping" because she's Russian.
yeah but is she wrong though lol
Easy to manipulate ABP to be positive (+) wrote:
Zaripova was 175cm and 70kg.
But then her results are said to be due to "doping" because she's Russian.
Galkina was 178cm. According to Western logic this should make hurdles "easy", but because she's Russian, they'll switch to a nation-based attack.
