At each water stop Galen Rupp chucked off his old soaked hat and grabbed a new one from his coach. Rules?

What if? LOL

What if Salazar only asked about plain hats, not iced hats? Not being clear is the Salazar way.

What if Salazar paid a race volunteer to pull hats for Rupp from his special cooler during the race? How may coaches have that privilege?

There is no letter authorized iced replacements hats during a race, and not even plain hats. Plain hats would be easy. Iced hats require special cooling to keep them chilled.

Runner man wrote:

This, this, is let's run in a nut shell, pure jealousy since his days at Central Catholic "spoiled" because Alberto met him and not you this is where all the vitriolic comments stem. Silver and now bronze NOP worked and you can't believe it

By Nike's own beliefs, nothing worked. It's gold or nothing.

Anyone remember there, "You don't win silver, you lose gold" ads in 1996?

I have no problem with the hats. I have a problem with them being chilled.

Even if everyone else could do this is there is a big problem. The other teams likely had no idea it was being contemplated. So it's not like they have 15 spare hats with the logo of their sponsor lying around. It's not like they have cooling gels lying around either. It would have certainly been fairer to all if they'd said, "No, you can't do this."

Here's a question for you. Is it against the rules to destroy other people's aid station bottles?

If I'm some other random runner and realize that Rupp is getting a cooled hat every 5k, what happens if I run up to the aid station and knock off his hat or take it.

I don't want to hear "it's not sporting" because people have been arguing that anything that isn't against the rules can and should be done.

So are there any rules preventing runnres from taking others stuff at an aid station or knocking it over. If not, I'm going suggest the Kenyans hammer and just overturn the aidstations.

So now you've changed from Salazar broke the rules to Salazar was in the gray area? Great. We're almost on the same page. The gray area is where Salazar's competitive genius really shines.

Pretty sure the refreshment zones are closely watched with a number of licensed officials on hand. It's not just a bunch of volunteers filling Gatorade cups. So I doubt a special volunteer snuck an icebox into the refreshment zone. You said it yourself, Salazar was not allowed in the competition area..... How would he know which 'volunteer' would be handing out Rupp's bottles?

Salazar is an incredibly competitive and smart man. Why would he admit to Galen's hats being chilled if it was not cleared beforehand? I would not be surprised if he brought one of the hats with him when he cleared it to show the official(s) exactly what would be at each zone.

To me this is gray area at the worst, which is still legal. But really the hat switching is just a really good idea that is perfectly fine because it was ok'd. I know it is difficult for some to stomach as there wasn't a special letter drawn up permitting the 'swap' but in reality it's just not possible to do so.

Doesn't throwing the old hat(s) on the ground like that equals littering?

Could be a common traffic and/or pedestrian rule against that.

Fair is Fair wrote:

So now you've changed from Salazar broke the rules to Salazar was in the gray area? Great. We're almost on the same page.

You're the one who said no rule was broken. He broke a rule by giving special aid in the competition area to his athlete. There is no gray area about it at all.

Fair is Fair wrote:

Why would he admit to Galen's hats being chilled if it was not cleared beforehand? I would not be surprised if he brought one of the hats with him when he cleared it to show the official(s) exactly what would be at each zone.

You are making an assumption that Salazar got approval. So far nothing has been provided to prove that.

As mentioned in another post yesterday Rupp, Kipchoge, and Lilesa all wore a special Nike yesterday that is not available to the public. While a majority of Nike's athletes wore the standard Streak these three, and potentially a few others, had a shoe that not all competitors had access to. Not even all of Nike's athletes had access to the shoe. Was this fair? based on the logic of some on this thread the answer is no. Most of the Nike and non-Nike athletes probably didn't even know the shoe existed or was an option. There certainly was no letter stating what shoe so and so was wearing and that it was OK'ed by an official.

There is a big difference between intentionally sabotaging another runner(s) and seeking to gain any advantage within the rules you can. I consider the cooled hats a smart, and legal strategy. Strategy is part of the sport. Complaining that others didn't think of it or weren't told they could do it is no ones fault but the person complaining.

Rojo,

athletes are always looking for an edge, so the hats are Salazar/Rupp wanting an edge

but to me the real point to take away from this is a world class athlete trying to be a champion thinks a dry or cooled hat would make a difference, sure it helps in theory, imagine the fragility of the mindset of that athlete that he believes he needs hat therapy to win. There is a fine line between edge, placebo, confidence, and self-doubt.

If you told me before the race that an athlete felt it would help him to change hats 10-15 times, I would tell you that is an unfocused, fragile athlete, that will never win.

From a practical point: easy to say afterwards, I know, but he loses silver by 11 seconds right? Call a second per hat exchange.

It's not about the bike.

You are confusing something worn an entire race with something changed during a race. Rupp, Kipchoge, and Lilesa did not switch shoes during the race.

No wrote:

Rojo,

athletes are always looking for an edge, so the hats are Salazar/Rupp wanting an edge

but to me the real point to take away from this is a world class athlete trying to be a champion thinks a dry or cooled hat would make a difference.

The issue is, how did the hats stay chilled, how did they get to the aid station, and why were the special hats only given to Rupp? If they were dry hats every athlete could grab, like sponges, then there is no issue. If ice was available at the aid stations any athlete could grab, then there is no issue. But, special chilled as long as possible hats, then there IS AN issue.

Where's the letter???? wrote:

Fair is Fair wrote:

Why would he admit to Galen's hats being chilled if it was not cleared beforehand? I would not be surprised if he brought one of the hats with him when he cleared it to show the official(s) exactly what would be at each zone.

You are making an assumption that Salazar got approval. So far nothing has been provided to prove that.

Nothing has been provided to prove he didn't clear it. At this point we have two American runners (eventually someone might re-watch the race enough times to see a runner from another nation make a swap too) with no evidence either of them did or did not clear hat switching with an official.

So we are assuming each of them consulted the rule book beforehand and found no language saying it was illegal to do so, they cleared hat switching with an official beforehand, or they both just rolled the dice and switched hats mid-race with the hope it wasn't against the rules. Which one of those three seems the least likely to be the case for two professional athletes to do prior to an Olympic Marathon?

How did they get there? wrote:

No wrote:

Rojo,

athletes are always looking for an edge, so the hats are Salazar/Rupp wanting an edge

but to me the real point to take away from this is a world class athlete trying to be a champion thinks a dry or cooled hat would make a difference.

The issue is, how did the hats stay chilled, how did they get to the aid station, and why were the special hats only given to Rupp? If they were dry hats every athlete could grab, like sponges, then there is no issue. If ice was available at the aid stations any athlete could grab, then there is no issue. But, special chilled as long as possible hats, then there IS AN issue.

not saying there is or is not an issue of legality/sportsmanship whatever you want to call edge-seeking

I AM saying the minimal edge that could provide says to me that athlete feels he NEEDS that edge to succeed. At some point believe in yourself

It is not about the bike. It aint the shoes. It aint the hat either - sad Rupp thinks it is. Bronze is admirable. The mentality is not.

Fair is Fair wrote:

Nothing has been provided to prove he DID clear it.

^Fixed.

No wrote:

I AM saying the minimal edge that could provide says to me that athlete feels he NEEDS that edge to succeed.

Minimal edge makes no difference. It's about doing something that is highly questionable. How did the Rupp-only chilled to the last moment hats get into the competition area. The rules are that there is no interaction by coaches, or their assistants, or someone working only for them, in the competition area during an event.

Where's the letter???? wrote:

Fair is Fair wrote:

Nothing has been provided to prove he DID clear it.

^Fixed.

You don't even know who David Katz is, do you?

It is up to Rupp's fellow competitors (or their associations) to actually lodge a protest before the hat issue is even reviewed.

Did any competitor actually lodge a protest?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Where's the letter???? wrote:

^Fixed.

You don't even know who David Katz is, do you?

Was he on the Rio Marathon course handing Rupp his custom hats?

can we all agree the hats were RUPP CERTIFIED?