The Canadian Running Thread

Skuj wrote:

Oh Man, I don't even know where to begin. But in the last month, AC has stated, clearly, that they won't "focus" on distances beyond 1500m, and, Mr Gardiner made his Big Boo Boo (and I'll apologise for that if he publicy states that he was misquoted). Seems to me that those two things go hand in hand though. And those things represent the raising of the white flag, in a rich country, where distance running really is quite popular when compared to those other events. And we have a deep history in this area, which some people care about. AC has obviously demonstrated that they don't care about history - only the trend of the month. This is short sighted thinking, and a guaranteed path to nowhereville.

"Gardiner is excited about the Bairu's future with the Canadian team.

"We expect to see him right through to London," the coach said, referring to the 2012 Olympics. "Though we're not sure which event he'll be challenging in yet."

That certainly does not sound like a "raising of the white flag" to me.

Skuj wrote:

Meanwhile, is Athletics Canada Satan?

ie New carding standards and an actual admission that they are focussing on "key" events, which exclude long distance running.

I just read the new AAP criteria and saw nothing in there about excluding long distance running. What am I missing?

If they cared so much they would do something about. Not sure gloating about how you predicted what Simon would do is in anyway helping fund more Canadian distance runners to go get smacked around at WXC. I guarantee you more people are interested in seeing Priscilla and Perdita actually make a final at a world champs/olympics than they are about getting non-competitive distance runners there for the experience. While Simon does not have any direct support from AC, he doesn't need it. He is in a situation that is FAR superior to any centre or group in Canada. They will support Simon in the form of carding, but they also know well enough that he is in a situation that shouldn't be tampered with. He doesn't NEED the carding points that would be earned from relocating to a centre because he will be carded without having to go through the assigning of points:"Provisional nominations will be made by the National Event Group Coaches in their discretion based on the following factors: Category 1 and Category 2 AC Centre athletes (as defined in Appendix A) with a minimum standard in 2010 as defined below:o Development eligible athletes with a D Standardo Senior eligible athletes with a C standardo Current injury card athletes with a D standard Athletes not linked with a National Centre program with a minimum of one B standard or up to 3 C standards in 2010 with no more than one performance before June 1, where required. The number of C performances will, however, vary by event (refer to exceptions under Appendix B, Section 1.). Team 2012 athletes and targeted relay teams Current SR1 or SR 2 athletes"As you can see Simon will be provisionally nominated due to him having achieved one B standard with his 27:23. Since there is NO WAY 66 athletes will be provisionally nominated, Simon is basically guaranteed to be carded. He therefore won't have to go into the General Carding Pool and worry about how many points he has accumulated. Run fast enough and you don't need to worry about relocating to a centre! The ones complaining about the system are the ones who know they aren't fast enough to get on the provisional carding list.

Skuj wrote:

thewhiz wrote:

Wow Skuj, you figured it out. No one gives a rats ass how POPULAR distance running is.

Tens of thousands of people in Canada DO give a rats ass about distance running. Sprinting and throwing? Maybe not quite as much.

Um, yeah wrote:

Could you please answer the questions instead of your usual evasion?

Skuj wrote:

LOL, this made me laugh, in light of the fact that I'm not being an anonymous troll, changing handles every 10min. (I don't mean you.)

Um, what?

It's true. There's a lot of evasion in this thread, in the form of multiple handle changes. Isn't there, "Um, what?"Sigh.....but that's letsrun though.So, to review, what am I getting beat up for again, exactly? I predicted SB turned a corner with his WXC finish, many made fun of me for that, SB shattered his previous 10000m PR, I bumped the posts of those who called me an idiot for saying 13th at WXC is great and he has made huge strides, then it was all about how he won't get the 5000 after his tweet, therefore I'm an idiot, meanwhile in the same month, AC states in writing that Long Distance really isn't on their radar, and Mr Gardiner is maybe misquoted, dear god let's hope so, and to this I am not supposed to be concerned. Is that it basically? :)PS I'm in Tofino on holiday - this is part of my fun. Except, I really do love the sport of distance running, have done for nearly 40 years, and it pains me to see what it has become in our country. IF AC claims to govern the sport, then I would hope that they do something to help it grow and flourish. I am seeing the opposite of this. That's why I'm posting in this thread this week. Those of you who think AC is making the right moves and sending the right messages will no doubt continue to debate me here. Cheers!

Um, what? wrote:

Um, yeah wrote:

Could you please answer the questions instead of your usual evasion?

Skuj wrote:

LOL, this made me laugh, in light of the fact that I'm not being an anonymous troll, changing handles every 10min. (I don't mean you.)

Um, what?

i think you have issues with the fact that more than one person may disagree with you - hence the paranoia about name changes. Also, you got made fun of for saying bariu would break 3 Canadian records.You still haven't any questions anyone has posed about what you think AC should do...

Skuj wrote:

It's true. There's a lot of evasion in this thread, in the form of multiple handle changes. Isn't there, "Um, what?"

I'm not 'Um, what?' and you still are evading the questions? Why might that be?

Those of you who think AC is making the right moves and sending the right messages will no doubt continue to debate me here.

I'm not claiming they've made "the right moves", but pointing out how silly your argument is that they are detrimental to the sport.

'Governing' the sport does not automatically mean that they are responsible for doling out public funds to athletes significantly removed from their mandated goals (top international performance). Obviously it would be a beneficial thing, but it's not a default obligation.

More importantly, you are apparently refusing to acknowledge that Solinsky and pretty well every other American kicking Canadian butt has been able to do so without some form of public-financed 'carding'.

You want to imitate a successful model? Why not look what they've done instead of demanding copious quantities of public tax dollars for people pursuing what is essentially a hobby?

Get a bunch of good runners together, get a good coach, get some private funding and run like hell. Why are you apparently so against what has been proven to be a successful concept that has developed a Canadian record holder?

Skuj wrote:

So, to review, what am I getting beat up for again, exactly? I predicted SB turned a corner with his WXC finish, many made fun of me for that

You got beat up -- deservedly so -- for predicting SB would set national records in the 5K, 10K, and HM all in 2010. (BTW, you cannot predict that someone "turned a corner.")

Skuj wrote:

SB shattered his previous 10000m PR, I bumped the posts of those who called me an idiot

The threads you bumped were mostly authored by folks who agreed that SB had a good chance to break the 10K record.

Skuj wrote:

then it was all about how he won't get the 5000 after his tweet, therefore I'm an idiot

Agreed.

Skuj wrote:

meanwhile in the same month, AC states in writing that Long Distance really isn't on their radar

I'm not exactly sure what "writing" you are referring to. I see nothing in the new carding guidelines that excludes distance running. Can you please provide a link to this "writing"?

Darren, I want to ask you a couple of related, but separate questions. Ron can chime in too if he likes.

1. As an obvious fan of the sport, what do you think are the most important key things that can or should be done to improve our sport (distance running) in Canada, and who should be doing them? Why?

2. Imagine you are running AC, charged with the responsibility of leading the development of athletics in Canada. You've been given a relatively small pool of money to support your mandate. How do you choose to spend that money, and what considerations shape your decisions in how you use that money?

These are not rude or snide questions, so please try to ignore your tormentors and give me an unemotional, well crafted response.

Thx

Pete wrote:

You've been given a relatively small pool of money to support your mandate.

This fact cannot be overstated. The maximum monthly allowance is $1500 with most recipients getting less than $1K per month. I'm sure the athletes are grateful for the support, but this stipend will not make a huge difference in their quality of life. Obviously most will need to hold down a job while training. So all of this whining about a perceived lack of support is really nothing more than making a mountain out of a mole hill. A sympathetic and understanding employer is worth much more that anything AC can provide.

Skuj wrote:

It's true. There's a lot of evasion in this thread, in the form of multiple handle changes. Isn't there, "Um, what?"

I have not evaded any questions. You have evaded all questions. Stop trying to deflect blame away from yourself.

Ok now that that douchebag is gone we can talk about other things

Brannen was brought up briefly. What is he up to? He ran really well early season, then chocked big at worlds so I think he'll be pretty hungry.

Hahaha.....wow! OBVIOUSLY you completely misunderstand me on many levels. Indeed, the "alternate" route, away from AC direction and "support", is essential here. But my big issue with all this, and one that you seem to overlook again and again and again, is....AC STILL CALLS THE SHOTS. THEY STILL GOVERN THE SPORT. THEY SET THE STANDARDS, CARDING FORMULA, SELECTION CRITERIA, AND THEN IN THE FACE OF ALL THAT, THEY STATE THAT DISTANCE RUNNING DOESN'T MATTER. Do you see this CONFLICT? This disharmony? As the governor of our sport, they can do so much to influence things in the right direction, or the wrong direction. Are you happy with the state of distance running in Canada in 2010? Do you think it will be better in 2020, given AC current thinking? Do you think WE can make things better in spite of AC? (To that last question, there is only so much that can be done as long as AC holds the reins. The same AC that will no longer focus on distances above 1500m, the same AC that sent 1 Senior to WXC, the same AC that stated that we are a sprint/throw nation. (Has there been a retraction yet?))

Cherry2000 wrote:

"Not focusing" on events longer than 1500 is not the same as "disowning" distance running.

Sorry....I'm not focussing on your posts. :)

pre32 wrote:

Ok now that that douchebag is gone we can talk about other things

Hahahaha....are you talkin to me? :)

To you and others who want to just beat me up, be advised that I really don't care. I'm mellow. I have a thick skin now that I've been at letsrun for a few years. (Hey - letsrun is good for something!)

But yeah....Brannen.....I believe in that Man, especially after Rome 2008, and his woes leading up to it. That told me a lot about that guy, and I think he has huge potential, if he EVER gets a grip on those injury woes.

First of all, "Leadership, Development, And Competition, Ensuring Podium Performances".That's what AC states they are all about. And now to Pete.....

Pete wrote:

Darren, I want to ask you a couple of related, but separate questions. Ron can chime in too if he likes.

1. As an obvious fan of the sport, what do you think are the most important key things that can or should be done to improve our sport (distance running) in Canada, and who should be doing them? Why?

2. Imagine you are running AC, charged with the responsibility of leading the development of athletics in Canada. You've been given a relatively small pool of money to support your mandate. How do you choose to spend that money, and what considerations shape your decisions in how you use that money?

These are not rude or snide questions, so please try to ignore your tormentors and give me an unemotional, well crafted response.

Thx

Pete, you won't forgive me for this, but ANY debate/discussion with you at TnF leads to you nitpicking at things that you see through a straw (plus a mentioning of your PhD), so I'm not going to get too carried away with your request (which actually contains condescending remarks.) (BTW, there is a small network off-line from TnF who have an absolute field day with the You vs Oldster Show - and no, we don't see you as the triumphant one.)

Leadership has a huge trickle-down effect. A strong personality in the right position at the top, who declares that Long Distance Running is a "go" in our country, can have significant ripple effects.

Full funding for "development" (ie junior) teams is paramount to our competing with other sports in this country for the all-important pool. We are a rich country. Carrots on sticks will go a very very long way towards increasing interest and goals for our youth, the future of our sport, and for god sake don't tell me we can't afford this.

An actual PR campaign regarding the importance and worldliness of the sport of Athletics, and how Canada can and should be in the game, would be nice. Instead I see the raising of the white flag, and the retreat from even considering being in the game.

A teaming with "funding partners" who are not so short sighted would also be most helpful.

AC keeps stating that they won't focus on things that we are not good at, rather than looking deeply into the reasons why we have fallen off in those things. They set the tone. Unfortunately, the tone is one of surrender and retreat lately.

These are "big pic / philosophy" things, Pete. That's how I am, I'm afraid. (No straws here, LOL.)

Skuj wrote:...ANY debate/discussion with you at TnF leads to you nitpicking at things that you see through a straw ...

OK, never mind Darren, carry on then.

Sorry, one thing...

Skuj wrote:...your request ... actually contains condescending remarks...

One of the dangers of non-verbal (e.g written) communications is the non-verbal part is missing and tone can be misinterpreted. I intended no condescension. Could you tell me what you interpreted as being condescending?

Skuj wrote:BTW, there is a small network off-line from TnF who have an absolute field day with the You vs Oldster Show - and no, we don't see you as the triumphant one.