I think he was talking about top guys that didn't race...
I'm really looking forward to seeing this Pre-Regional race. I'm curious to see what the winning time will be like. I know a lot of people think the SLU course is fast but I'm guessing the winner wont be faster than 25:30-20. I'm pretty sure you can see the top 100 times run on the course somewhere on the SLU xc page.
It's not fast. It was just fast the last time regionals was there because it was frozen. 25:00 for Kosgei, 25:30 for everyone else.
I hear that Cortland will not be running all their top guys again. I hope that is not true. I think they had a chance at winning Nats last year but did not race enough.
ehhh wrote:
It's not fast. It was just fast the last time regionals was there because it was frozen. 25:00 for Kosgei, 25:30 for everyone else.
Nally FTW @ St. Lawrence this weekend!!!
The last time regionals was held there, it was about 15 degrees out with the wind chills in the negatives when the guys race went off. The course was frozen, but with the way the weather was that day, those times do nothing for what could have been run. From what I remember all the top runners were in the heated tent almost in tears after the race because they couldn't feel a damn thing on their bodies. Had it been warmer out, that race would have been a good 20 seconds faster.
With good weather a couple guys should break that course record this weekend.
Not Fast? wrote:
The last time regionals was held there, it was about 15 degrees out with the wind chills in the negatives when the guys race went off. The course was frozen, but with the way the weather was that day, those times do nothing for what could have been run. From what I remember all the top runners were in the heated tent almost in tears after the race because they couldn't feel a damn thing on their bodies. Had it been warmer out, that race would have been a good 20 seconds faster.
With good weather a couple guys should break that course record this weekend.
Gotta call BS on this one. I pulled out my training log from 2004 and have it noted that the temperature was low 30's at our race time. The course was frozen, but not 15 degrees, nor was it that windy. It was cold, but really good racing conditions. I also don't recall a heated tent, but maybe I just didn't need it. IMO, the SLU course has never been faster. But Kosgei, if he runs hard, will break Ted's record.
Agreed...it was cold, but not 15 degrees. There was actually a heated tent, sort of between the start line and the athletic center, where everyone's warmups were waiting for them after the race. I remember being freezing beforehand, and at the line, but once the gun went off I don't think I thought about it once. As you said, super fast course that day.
I like the fact that Cortland doesn't race as much as other teams. Their season is very controlled and I've seen burn out bite more than one team come championship season. With that said, Nally and Debois would be missing out, big time, if they didn't race this week.
Having watched Kosgei race many times it might be a good strategy for someone with a shot to beat him to be a little naive about what he is capable of. However, Nally and Debois could take down Kosgei by regionals and it might help to tangle with him a little bit to get a feel for how he races (I think they've raced him twice? Last year at Regionals and Nationals for sure but any other times? I doubt they met up on the track). They can have a dress rehearsal against the favorite for the national title and get a preview of the Regionals course at the same time. No-brainer, race them, Cortland. Plus, it will make for a great race for those of us traveling to the North Country to watch it.
1. Kosgei - I think they could beat him, but they won't. He'll blow a competitive race wide open with 800m to go.
2. Debois (+10 seconds)- Underrated runner in my opinion, if that can be possible of a guy who was 3rd place at regionals as a Sophomore.
3. Nally (+13)- Not quite time for his annual clutch performance(s).
4. Ramsey(+20)- He's good and probably motivated.
5. Heymann (+21) - He is also very good, Heymann v. Ramsey is a stellar under-card if the Cortland guys do go after Kosgei.
6. Suny G Pack (+25) - I don't literally think their pack will finish all at the same time but there could be a lot of dark blue in the top 15.
1. Suny G - If Cortland is at full strength the Knights will take second
2. Cortland - I don't think we'll see every varsity Cortland runner, Maybe 2 or 3 tops. Their partial squad can still almost get the job done.
3. St. Lawrence - They'll run faster than they have shown at their early races. I think home course advantage counts for something, too. <15 points behind Geneseo.
4. Plattsburg - they'll ride the wave of their early season success to a distant 4th.
5. Ithaca - I'm eager to learn more about their team. They could be much better than I give them credit for.
Great last 4 posts. From what I remember about Regionals in 2004 - mid 30's, sunny, very calm. The course was frozen, so there was a ton of energy return with every stride. The times for regionals that year compared to the Hoffmann were much faster; at least 30 seconds and up to 90 seconds for some of our guys. Regionals should be great. I really think the northern based teams (SLU, Plattsburgh, etc...) have a distinct advantage compared to teams like NYU and TCNJ, who might not be prepared for that kind of weather. That doesn't mean that they'll place ahead of them, just that they have a comparative advantage. I am also interested in seeing what Ithaca and RIT can do if they run their full squads.
And Rage - I appreciate the respect for my alma mater, but the only surprise from Clarkson will be sending a full team to the race on November 15. As an interesting side note - Regionals 2004 was out best team race ever. The guys finished 13th and our women were 6th.
DeanLauer21 wrote:
I like the fact that Cortland doesn't race as much as other teams. Their season is very controlled and I've seen burn out bite more than one team come championship season. With that said, Nally and Debois would be missing out, big time, if they didn't race this week.
Having watched Kosgei race many times it might be a good strategy for someone with a shot to beat him to be a little naive about what he is capable of. However, Nally and Debois could take down Kosgei by regionals and it might help to tangle with him a little bit to get a feel for how he races (I think they've raced him twice? Last year at Regionals and Nationals for sure but any other times? I doubt they met up on the track). They can have a dress rehearsal against the favorite for the national title and get a preview of the Regionals course at the same time. No-brainer, race them, Cortland. Plus, it will make for a great race for those of us traveling to the North Country to watch it.
1. Kosgei - I think they could beat him, but they won't. He'll blow a competitive race wide open with 800m to go.
2. Debois (+10 seconds)- Underrated runner in my opinion, if that can be possible of a guy who was 3rd place at regionals as a Sophomore.
3. Nally (+13)- Not quite time for his annual clutch performance(s).
4. Ramsey(+20)- He's good and probably motivated.
5. Heymann (+21) - He is also very good, Heymann v. Ramsey is a stellar under-card if the Cortland guys do go after Kosgei.
6. Suny G Pack (+25) - I don't literally think their pack will finish all at the same time but there could be a lot of dark blue in the top 15.
1. Suny G - If Cortland is at full strength the Knights will take second
2. Cortland - I don't think we'll see every varsity Cortland runner, Maybe 2 or 3 tops. Their partial squad can still almost get the job done.
3. St. Lawrence - They'll run faster than they have shown at their early races. I think home course advantage counts for something, too. <15 points behind Geneseo.
4. Plattsburg - they'll ride the wave of their early season success to a distant 4th.
5. Ithaca - I'm eager to learn more about their team. They could be much better than I give them credit for.
No Rowdy Ryan in the top 5? He may disagree! Top 3 for sure...
I recall the heated tent. I recall the great times. I do not recall the temperature being in the mid 30's. When I ran that morning it was -13. Im not being saracastic I have that in my running log. The air temperature during race time I have down as 27. Anyone else have any thing they wrote down about it right after it was done? Or is this the stuff of legend?
ie) When I was a youngin we had to run in 20 degree weather and they had the regional meet in Canada! It was run uphill and barefoot!
I have it down as 23 at the start of the race. Not too cold to run fast in, but still pretty cold. I distinctly remember thinking about how badly my hands hurt from the cold 2 miles into the race. That's honestly the only time I can ever remember thinking about weather conditions like that once a race had started. After the race was over I had to have my coach untie my spikes for me to get the timing chips off, I literally couldn't move my fingers. I did run a 35 second pr though, I think everyone on my team pr'd by at least 20 seconds, so all in all it was a good day to race.
What about on the girls side? Is Wendy the favorite for the win, or is there another girl I'm over looking? I'd like to see SLU and Cortland chase Ithaca and SunyG. I know the SLU team has some young, untapped talent, and the Cortland program seems to produce...it doesn't seem out of the question for an upset here.
As much as I understand not racing until late in the season and taking meets off as a runner, I don't like it as a fan. Although I'm not going to be there, I'm going to be sitting at my computer and waiting for results. I agree with DeanLauer21, Ramsey v. Heymann has been fun to watch, but it doesn't match the fireworks of Kosgei v. Cortland front runners. A man can dream can't he... Ithaca and Platts have been wowing me, I'm excited to see how they match up against some of the higher ranked teams in the region.
yes Wendy is the favorite to win...Schaffhouser is the closest to her after that and Wendy already beat her this year so...she has to be the favorite
if the Cortland women run their full team at a race effort they will surprise some people
clarksonxc wrote:
Great last 4 posts. From what I remember about Regionals in 2004 - mid 30's, sunny, very calm. The course was frozen, so there was a ton of energy return with every stride. The times for regionals that year compared to the Hoffmann were much faster; at least 30 seconds and up to 90 seconds for some of our guys. Regionals should be great. I really think the northern based teams (SLU, Plattsburgh, etc...) have a distinct advantage compared to teams like NYU and TCNJ, who might not be prepared for that kind of weather. That doesn't mean that they'll place ahead of them, just that they have a comparative advantage. I am also interested in seeing what Ithaca and RIT can do if they run their full squads.
And Rage - I appreciate the respect for my alma mater, but the only surprise from Clarkson will be sending a full team to the race on November 15. As an interesting side note - Regionals 2004 was out best team race ever. The guys finished 13th and our women were 6th.
Didn't TCNJ and NYU take 1-2 at Regionals in 2004? I guess those schools not handling the weather just went out the window
do you know what "comparative advantage" means?
1. 67 The College of New Jersey (25:42.9 128:34.4)
2. 84 SUNY Geneseo (25:40.8 128:23.9)
3. 97 New York University (25:52.3 129:21.3)
4. 107 SUNY Cortland (25:57.5 129:47.2)
5. 157 SUNY Brockport (26:11.4 130:56.6)
6. 238 St. Lawrence University (26:31.5 132:37.1)
7. 243 University of Rochester (26:37.9 133:09.1)
8. 267 Ithaca College (26:38.0 133:09.8)
9. 268 SUNY Plattsburgh (26:33.4 132:46.7)
10. 285 Rochester Institute of Tech (26:49.0 134:04.6)
11. 296 Vassar College (26:44.3 133:41.4)
12. 330 Rowan University (26:53.2 134:25.8)
13. 363 Clarkson University (26:58.9 134:54.5)
14. 385 Alfred University (27:06.8 135:33.6)
15. 460 Hamilton College (27:18.8 136:34.0)
16. 508 US Merchant Marine Academy (27:27.5 137:17.4)
17. 536 Rensselaer Polytechnic Instit. (27:34.2 137:50.6)
18. 537 SUNY Oswego (27:40.4 138:21.7)
19. 541 SUNY Oneonta (27:31.5 137:37.4)
20. 556 Fredonia State University (27:37.5 138:07.1)
21. 561 Kean University (27:41.0 138:24.9)
22. 634 Nazareth College (28:10.7 140:53.3)
23. 641 Buffalo State College (27:59.6 139:57.7)
24. 663 Richard Stockton College (28:02.8 140:13.8)
25. 713 Hartwick College (28:29.4 142:27.0)
26. 811 Union College (28:54.7 144:33.4)
27. 821 SUNY New Paltz (29:20.4 146:41.6)
28. 826 Stevens Institute of Tech. (29:06.2 145:31.0)
29. 848 SUNY Potsdam (30:35.8 152:58.6)
30. 854 Hunter College (32:36.7 163:03.4)
31. 900 Hobart College (30:07.0 150:35.0)
32. 953 SUNY Maritime College (30:28.1 152:20.1)
33. 1047 Rutgers University-Camden (36:42.6 183:33.0)
Some facts about 2004. The week of the regional saw one of the coldest november cold fronts in a long time. By wednesday in NJ (forget about SLU since I didnt get there till friday so i dont know) the daily high was around 30, low of 16-18. By friday at the course it was a high of around 16, getting back down to around 8 overnight. by race time it was about 26 and sunny, and after being so cold the previous few days actually felt warm. There was no wind. The ground was frozen solid, and ran fast, but actually had some bad footing where the ground had frozen solid with muddy foot marks which made a few of the grass stretches bumpy. SLU did a good job dealing with cold, heated tent and open gym for kids to warm up and stretch.
I remember running at 715am and it was so cold the moisture in my nose was freezing up. Ice on side of hat. Only good thing it was so cold there was no one out so I had the whole road to myself. It was a great race, TCNJ and Suny G beat NYU up front if I recall, but NYU had a great pack with their frosh guys, obviously a precursor of things to come from them.
Should be a great regional this year, i hope to get off and make it back up there.
its looking like rain for all day saturday
Man, I wish I had seen that heated tent in 2004, I could have used it.
From my training log, I had it at 12 degrees when we left the hotel that morning and mid 20s at race time, little to no wind and sunny. The footing was only treacherous in a couple of spots (unfortunately, our #1 guy twisted the crap out of his ankle in a frozen rut), and everyone ran fast despite the cold. Certainly not comfortable, but not killer.