Jamie S. wrote:
If you're an experienced over 25 and decided sub-4 would be cool, - you have no chance.
Is this saying that an over-25 cannot take up running and break 4:00 for 1500m? Surely not!
Jamie S. wrote:
If you're an experienced over 25 and decided sub-4 would be cool, - you have no chance.
Is this saying that an over-25 cannot take up running and break 4:00 for 1500m? Surely not!
solo joe, notice too that you did a really tough 10x600 workout just a few days before your race. and before you did a tough 1k workout just a few days before the race. although you're probably going for a later peak (and you were sick for this race), you'll obviously want to do only one relatively light fast workout (on tuesday for a saturday race) the week of your races. think of the race as your second fast workout that week. something like 1k, 800m, 400m, 300m, none of it ultra hard, on tuesday is probably good. you will see the benefits of the 10x600m NEXT WEEK, if you're healthy.
jonesy wrote:
solo joe, notice too that you did a really tough 10x600 workout just a few days before your race. and before you did a tough 1k workout just a few days before the race. although you're probably going for a later peak (and you were sick for this race), you'll obviously want to do only one relatively light fast workout (on tuesday for a saturday race) the week of your races. think of the race as your second fast workout that week. something like 1k, 800m, 400m, 300m, none of it ultra hard, on tuesday is probably good. you will see the benefits of the 10x600m NEXT WEEK, if you're healthy.
So a "light", "fast" workout on Tuesday and a mile race on Saturday is "probably good" ... because it's FEBRUARY?
You guys always crack me up. I thought that "solo joe" wanted to run sub-15:00? Maybe I am wrong, but if I am not, why so light training in Jan/Feb? If he is looking to run sub-4:00/sub-15:00 (probably at a later time -- May? June?) then he should be pushing it now.
But I would be running lots of miles now. I would run "hard" a lot of the time but not faster than 4:50 per mile pace. 5-10 mile runs at a continuous "hard" pace and maybe 800s at 2:20 and miles at 4:50 ... you can still race well off of these "threshold"-type workouts.
if you want a fast race, don't do a hard workout several days before the race. that's just obvious. if you don't care about the performance at all, then go ahead and train through. that's all i was saying.
Double-take wrote:
Jamie S. wrote:If you're an experienced over 25 and decided sub-4 would be cool, - you have no chance.
Is this saying that an over-25 cannot take up running and break 4:00 for 1500m? Surely not!
No no. Note the word 'experienced'. If you've been training hard for years and 4:16 is your best, no way will you find 16secs at that age. If you're a teen, go for it!
I appreciate all of the input. I understand what you are saying jonesy, and I agree that my training is somewhat geared to training through meets right now. Outdoor is my main focus, and I am willing to sacrifice some indoor success for benefits later, as frustrating as it might be. Thanks for the lighter workout suggestion, I will surely try that sometime. This week I think I will workout hard tomorrow, kilo repeats is the plan, and then do a lighter workout on wednesday (400m hard/400m medium fartlek for a few miles). I'm racing the 3k on friday and the mile I think on saturday.
I felt a little better yesterday. I ran 15 and built it up the whole time. I ran under 5:20 the last mile. Probably not a great idea the day after a race but once I kept picking it up I couldn't hold back. I'm sore today but I'm hoping an easy 8 will let me recover for my workout tomorrow.
Wow. Crazy weekend.
Saturday: Got up at 8 to run our DMR at the Armory. Tried to get a provisional time there (10:10 for DIII) but it wasn't quite in the cards. Ended up running 4:20.9 for the 1600 leg.
Then I got on a bus and traveled for 8 hours to our conference meet.
Sunday: Ran the open mile and 5k. 4:30 and 16:18, kind of ew. Both went out pretty slow - I tried to go with the frontrunners in both and just didn't have the juice. I think Saturday's mile may have zapped me a little bit for Sunday's, and then Sunday's mile did the same in turn to the 5k (which was an hour and a half later).
And now I'm going to bed.
that's hammering at the end for a 15 miler after a race! remember that when you feel great and it's neither a race nor a speed w/o or tempo, hold back some. good to finish faster or run a progression, but that's pretty hard core.
anyone reading this thread will be unsurprised by the end of my week here:
a very good first five days of the week here at altitude, and a tremendous shame to have wasted this shape with no available races the past six weeks.
monday-12 @1:21, closing in 5:45 (wearing sweats, jacket).
tuesday-12-3 in morning, 9 in afternoon: unm track-3x200 (just for warmup)-42,39,39; 12x400 (200 rest, avg. 1:20)-78 avg. wearing sweats, jacket, very windy. at end of slow cooldown ran 1.2m @6:25 pace
wed-14 morning 7.6M-UNM loop, 59:00.early aft.-6.4M w/baby stroller slow.
thursday-14.5- 3 in morning; 11.5-1:24 in afternoon, with 6.5M LT-39:42 (3.25M out at MP, 3.25M back at 1/2 MP)-on dirt and gravel, but ditched the sweats and jacket. 6:06 pace avg: 6:17 pace out, 5:55 back, last mile in 5:51, last quarter in 79. felt good in workout and could have run a lot faster with team, at sea level, or even just on pavement. however, achilles flared for first time in four months. running sub 6 on dirt is the culprit, i think.
took off friday, saturday, sunday, and maybe monday. started eccentric heel exercises yesterday. heel is feeling better but with no races soon, might be better to take monday off as well.
53 for the week.
i'm racing once more in 2 weeks and feel like i need some leg speed. Any workout suggestions for the next two weeks? I get to the end of a race, last 400m, and can't accelerate.
I am sorry to hear about your achilles, Jonesy. Be smart about it.
Well, I can finally run again. Last week I built up to a 4 mile run. I started on Tuesday with a 1.5 mile run. Wed. was a nice 2mile run. Thursday was a pool workout, and Friday I took off. Saturday we had our home track meet, and I warmed up and cooled down with my teammate about 3 time. In all, it was about a 3mile day. Sunday was a nice and easy 4miler.
I have been lifting weights everyday; alternating upper and lower body work each day.
I am shooting for 20-30 miles this week.
Jamie S wrote:
Double-take wrote:Is this saying that an over-25 cannot take up running and break 4:00 for 1500m? Surely not!
No no. Note the word 'experienced'. If you've been training hard for years and 4:16 is your best, no way will you find 16secs at that age. If you're a teen, go for it!
Jamie, what makes you the expert? I ran 4 minutes for 1500 when I was 43 off a very hard weeks 10k training. Big improvements can be made at any age, if you know what you are doing.
good to see you running again eddylee! I hope that you're doing the eccentric exercises. as to what exactly they are, i checked about ten different links from the best threads area on this site, and saw multiple different pieces of advice. most of the advice was the rest, ice, anti-inflammatory type. then there were the calf stretch, the toe raises with both feet, lowering on one back below horizontal. I was doing the one foot half on a step, lowering heel and then raising it, 10x3. also there was the site with squat exercises with two feet toward a wall, straight, left, right, then various with one foot and the other lifted, again straight, left, right.
in any case, after three days off (achilles cord didn't feel sore to the toucha any more), I ran again today very slowly, 7 miles, much of it ten minute miles, going down below 9 and finishing with an 8:15. felt fine other than the calves sore from the exercises. will try again slow four miles in the morning and then consider doing the speed workout in the afternoon if all is well.
couldn't workout today because of ice storm. so, yet again, it will be a tuesday workout/friday race scenario
heyo, there's a thread devoted to the increasing speed question among the good threads at the top of the message board.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=162612&thread=162612
I read a bit of it and it seems that much of the advice is to do 200m repeats frequently or 150m's working up to 300m's over time. some advise that these be done all out with full recovery, and 6 or fewer. people also advise short steep hill repeats all out. and then some advise plyometrics and form drills. bounding, butt kicks, etc.
As for speed at the end of a race, when you're tired already, I think that ladders (ending with shorter stuff) are supposed to help, if you pick up the pace on the last couple of intervals.
the other frequent piece of advice to increase speed was to do strides often.
How old are you?
Increasing your speed and increasing your finishing kick are two different things, I think. The stuff jonesy is recommending above is good for increasing your speed - but you can't actually utilize it if you're already tying up due to a quick early pace. The only time you'll get to use that speed is when you're not dying - so you're either aerobically superior to the point of being comfortable still at the end of a race or anaerobically conditioned so that you can kick off a hard pace.
Increasing aerobic conditioning, V02 max..it's pretty clear how to do that (tempo runs, intervals over 2 mins in length). For dealing with kicking off a hard pace, our coach has us often open our workouts with a 1000 - go through the 800 at mile pace, kick hard for the last 200. We also do race simulation workouts where you'll run 400 / 800 / 300 at 15 pace, with 30 seconds then 60 seconds rest.
I started doing the eccentric calf raises about a week ago; I could not do them before because of the pain.
I ran 6miles yesterday...it felt so good, and it feels good to be semi back.
My week should look like this.
M-6
T-5
W-4
Th-5
F-6
S-5 with maybe some strides on grass
S-7-8(will turn around at 3mile mark, and if I feel good after 6, then I will doing 1-2miles extra.
Total: 38-39
Thanks for all of the advice, fellas.
yesterday's workout was marginally better than the same workout 3 weeks ago. I did 6x1000m with 2 minutes rest. I hit 3:04, 3:03, 3:04, 3:04, 3:05, 2:59. Felt pretty good, didn't really go in the red I don't think because I felt great on my cooldown.
well I might as well throw my hat in the ring for the quest for the elusive sub-4 1500.
age 17 - pr's 1:58.7, 4:05.9, both of which are recent races.
Currently running 35-40 mpw, average week looking like this.
Monday - AM - 20 mins easy
workout (yesterdays: 10x400 @ 64 with 60 sec break and 10 min jog in between 5 and 6.
Tuesday - off or easy run (40minutes)
Wednesday - AM - 20 minutes easy
40 minutes or off (if ran tuesday)
Thursday - moderate workout, usually strength circuits
Friday - easy run of 40 minutes
Saturday - threshold usually, with yoga
Sunday - long run of 10 miles
another recent workout that deals with goal 1500 was 1200-800-400 with 8 min jog rest (3:15,2:03.1,57.9)
monday, wednesday morning runs are my mandatory school practices.