If he is not a natural 5k runner, but a limited 5k runner, then that is truely a testament to his work ethic and genius training scheme. Imagine being 2x world champ, 1x olympic champ and 2x european champ despite not being a natural 5k runner!
However I think it should be apples to apples, does not make any sense to require a runner to run rqual to what Bekele did over his whole career over 6 championships and one DL. As we all know, the fast 5000m times are not set in championships. We will see 😊
The term "natural" here is being used to suggest he is as best suited to that distance as anyone has ever been - and through giftedness and not just hard work. He hasn't shown he is as suited as all those who have so far run faster.
So what you are saying is that it is only Cheptegei who is a natural 5000 runner? Shouldn't being "natural" rather point to achieving a fast time in young age, when you have yet been able to work hard for so long time?
Jakob is at 26th place on the u20 list in 5000. Bekele is at 91th with 13:13 in that case...
Maybe it isn't so much use in saying that people are this or that early in a career.
There are so many more examples for rapid improvement of PB to a (close to) WR.
That Ingebrigtsen hasn't set a 5000m PB since 3 1/2 years is almost irrelevant for the question: he hasn't tried to do so.
With his results from the last 3 years and while knowing the fact that he hasn't done a single race for time in this period, he IS a very strong contender for the 5000m WR.
Comparing other runners is irrelevant. Nothing anything one athlete does determines what another will do. You assume Ingebrigtsen hasn't tried to run faster in 3 years over 5k. It may be just as likely that he is limited over the distance, because in the same period he has improved his times over shorter distances. And how often has he run the 2k, 3k and 2 mile in the last 3 years?
Pretty sure you haven't understood the numbers at all.
I feel like people cooled on his 10,000m potential after his HM, but make no mistake, he will absolutely win WC / Olympic gold at that distance.
Dude split 27:27 for 10k in a half and had enough left to jog in a 63. This was a spur-of-the-moment race at the end of a long season and ~36 hours after his final 1500 of the season. I don't think anyone could make a serious argument that he's not capable of going well into the 26s right now, and this is a guy that is primarily trying to win 1500s. If Jakob were to put his focus on the 10,000 and actually try to run quickly rather than just winning races (what he tends to do in the 5000), I would be shocked if he weren't in the top 4 of all time quite quickly. In reality, he would probably run a season's best of 26:4x because that's all it would likely take to win all of his races.
He never will. He is not and never will be good enough. This is the big leagues and Jakob cannot beat the big boys.
That isn't even a viable as a "dumb troll" stance and you know it. You can be a good troll if you work on it, but this was not great. You can (and will) do better! Never give up on your dreams.
Bonus Question: if you could have only one of Jakob's skills or achievements, which one would it be?
Olympic Gold in the 1500m
Olympic Gold in the 5000m
3000m World Record of 7:17 (breaking Komen's iconic record)
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The term "natural" here is being used to suggest he is as best suited to that distance as anyone has ever been - and through giftedness and not just hard work. He hasn't shown he is as suited as all those who have so far run faster.
So what you are saying is that it is only Cheptegei who is a natural 5000 runner? Shouldn't being "natural" rather point to achieving a fast time in young age, when you have yet been able to work hard for so long time?
Jakob is at 26th place on the u20 list in 5000. Bekele is at 91th with 13:13 in that case...
Maybe it isn't so much use in saying that people are this or that early in a career.
So "natural" is now defined to mean being good at an early age - just in case he won't be the best later.
Comparing other runners is irrelevant. Nothing anything one athlete does determines what another will do. You assume Ingebrigtsen hasn't tried to run faster in 3 years over 5k. It may be just as likely that he is limited over the distance, because in the same period he has improved his times over shorter distances. And how often has he run the 2k, 3k and 2 mile in the last 3 years?
Pretty sure you haven't understood the numbers at all.
The numbers don't explain what you think they do. They don't guarantee improvements.
Comparing other runners is irrelevant. Nothing anything one athlete does determines what another will do.
Ok, so why are you then using Cheptegei and Bekeles times to determine what Jakob can do in the 5k?
I'm not using their times to determine what he may do; I am pointing out he is far from matching them. He may never. In the distance events, I don't think he will.
I feel like people cooled on his 10,000m potential after his HM, but make no mistake, he will absolutely win WC / Olympic gold at that distance.
Dude split 27:27 for 10k in a half and had enough left to jog in a 63. This was a spur-of-the-moment race at the end of a long season and ~36 hours after his final 1500 of the season. I don't think anyone could make a serious argument that he's not capable of going well into the 26s right now, and this is a guy that is primarily trying to win 1500s. If Jakob were to put his focus on the 10,000 and actually try to run quickly rather than just winning races (what he tends to do in the 5000), I would be shocked if he weren't in the top 4 of all time quite quickly. In reality, he would probably run a season's best of 26:4x because that's all it would likely take to win all of his races.
He didn't "jog" in; he was f*cked after 10k and had to walk to recover. What fans think he is capable of remains pure fantasy.
I'm glad you're amused because you haven't understood the comparison. Farah is better than Ingebrigtsen by far by a championship measure, while Cheptegei's vastly superior best 5k time over Ingebrigtsen puts him well ahead of the Norwegian, because Cheptegei also has championship titles under his belt - as well as a 10k record that would leave Ingebrigtsen nearly a lap behind. Bekele was also far better. Ingebrigtsen is vastly overrated here.
The comparison is you picking and choosing which metrics are valid and which aren't. You can't have it both way that both being slower and winning more titles and being faster but winning fewer titles makes you a better runner. Why did Cheptegei finish 9th in the only global final where they faced each other and Jakob won? Why did Cheptegei rather drop out of the Paris final than face Jakob?
He also doesn't have multiple titles, he has a single global final gold medal. One. Bringing up the 10k in a discussion about the 5k is irrelevant and shows you don't have a real argument.
Of course I pick and choose which metrics to apply; we all do - because not all metrics are equally valid in all cases. Cheptegei's best 5k remains way ahead of anything Ingebrigtsen has done. That's a significant metric. Farah remains way ahead of Ingebrigtsen in championship distance titles; that's another.
Pretty sure you haven't understood the numbers at all.
The numbers don't explain what you think they do. They don't guarantee improvements.
Nobody thinks such numbers guarantee something at all. They just show that many world record setters in the distance events didn't had a good personal best before.
With all his achievements in the last three seasons, a 5000m world record seems not unrealistic for me.
But you are speculating about a wr if you think he can possibly achieve it. If you say don't know then you are in the same position as most here but if you think he is unlikely to get it then you would be agreeing with me.
Not at all, since I am clearly saying I will not speculate about a WR. I hope he runs a time trial because I am curious about his time. I think any runner that beat the world record holder and the world number two obviously is pretty strong in the distance, but I also think its not really interesting to speculate untill they actually run time trials.
I am speculating about the 5k wr and suggesting Ingebrigtsen won't achieve it, so if you are disputing what I say then you are similarly engaged in that speculation. If he doesn't break the wr or even get near it, does that not reduce any assessment of where he stands in that event (with the same question being asked of where he would rate as a 10k runner)? You might prefer to say "time will tell", once he has run a few time trials, but I suggest what he has shown already is that he won't excel as others have over those distances. I don't think he will get those records. But that is of course a very unpopular view here.
The numbers don't explain what you think they do. They don't guarantee improvements.
Nobody thinks such numbers guarantee something at all. They just show that many world record setters in the distance events didn't had a good personal best before.
With all his achievements in the last three seasons, a 5000m world record seems not unrealistic for me.
We simply disagree on your last sentence. I can imagine he might run in the lower 12:40's but I don't see him beating 12:35. We are both speculating. One of us may in time be right.
The comparison is you picking and choosing which metrics are valid and which aren't. You can't have it both way that both being slower and winning more titles and being faster but winning fewer titles makes you a better runner. Why did Cheptegei finish 9th in the only global final where they faced each other and Jakob won? Why did Cheptegei rather drop out of the Paris final than face Jakob?
He also doesn't have multiple titles, he has a single global final gold medal. One. Bringing up the 10k in a discussion about the 5k is irrelevant and shows you don't have a real argument.
Of course I pick and choose which metrics to apply; we all do - because not all metrics are equally valid in all cases. Cheptegei's best 5k remains way ahead of anything Ingebrigtsen has done. That's a significant metric. Farah remains way ahead of Ingebrigtsen in championship distance titles; that's another.
Yes, that's the point, you choose which metrics are valid when they favor the runner you want to claim is better than Jakob. Both Farah and Cheptegei can't be better than Jakob if you're going to argue a faster PB but fewer titles makes Cheptegei better than Jakob and a slower PB but more titles makes Farah better than Jakob.
Nobody thinks such numbers guarantee something at all. They just show that many world record setters in the distance events didn't had a good personal best before.
With all his achievements in the last three seasons, a 5000m world record seems not unrealistic for me.
We simply disagree on your last sentence. I can imagine he might run in the lower 12:40's but I don't see him beating 12:35. We are both speculating. One of us may in time be right.
Unrealistic? For the by far fastest in history over both 3000m and 2 Miles it's unrealistic that he also might break the 5000m world record? For the guy who has won the last three global titles?
And don't bring your childish "12:48" again.
We can't know if he ever will break the 5000m world record or even just comes close to it - but it's definitely not unrealistic that he get's the record.
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