What’s crazy is the people saying it’s just a business are actually completely wrong. Track and XC loses money so if it was a business it would have to declare bankruptcy. If you’re going to act like a football coach don’t be surprised if your team gets cut because you aren’t producing money like a football coach does
XC boosts average gpa and almost never has legal issues
From the self proclaimed and famous interview “I recruit and develop Americans.” Sean Carlson has cut 9 American men from the Colorado roster, without an attempt to develop the athletes at all. Colorado is known for having their American runners being built and trained to be tough as nails.
Charlie Welch Alex Baca Benjamin Greene Nolan Hoffman Evan Charkut Stefan Haug Jack Nauman Jacob Culig Jake Derouin
Another power hungry coach that doesn’t care about his image of being a good coach vs buying a roster. I guess Carlson has decided to follow the wave of the foreign train. Unfortunately it seems the glory days of Covid are in the past.
What do my fellow Buff Alum think about this mass exodus of athletes from Colorado?
Great Post!
No one wants to coach anymore. I've been saying it for a few years now. It's all about "How much are you going to pay me"? I've always said that ANYONE can a take an established foreign runner and throw out some workouts and enjoy the results. It's way too difficult to recruit young American talent and develop them for 4 years. I'm not saying to ignore foreign talent, but you can limit the number of roster spots, say 80% American- 20% Foreign, etc... It's not that difficult, IF you know what you're doing and love what you do. There's WAY TOO MUCH job hopping around to find the perfect situation. I thought Carlson had the dream gig at UT? What if he bombs out at CU? If he's as good as advertised, he should CRUSH at CU with all of the home-grown altitude ready talent in Colorado.
That's more of an admin problem than a coaching problem. Impatient AD's who know very little about the sport and simply look at placement at nationals have led to a shift in recruiting strategies. The coaches at the big programs are on shorter leashes now as the pressure to win now increases which leads to an increase in focusing more on ready made talent. It's unfortunate because there are so many diamond in the rough success stories but those are becoming more rare at this level. Oh well. There are still programs that develop, they're just smaller.
Georgia football wide receiver Rara Thomas, arrested after a domestic violence incident Friday, was cited multiple times for speeding this year among more previously unreported driving violations in the Bulldogs' football pro...
There was a simple solution that several athletic department staff put forth, and was ignored by Hilliard/George --
Let everyone stay (just as their contracts provided); Carlson explains to team that we have a roster limit for 2025. As a result, after this XC season, or after track in the spring, use the portal if it is likely that you won't be in the top 17.
That gives everyone time to figure out their best plan. It costs CU next to nothing (these are all lower scholarship guys).
Another problem I've not mentioned is that since all these guys were under a contract to be on the team, they signed leases, etc for housing this year. Boulder is expensive. I know of very few college students that can handle two leases if they chose to enter the portal and move. Maybe they can sub-lease, but that's risky.
In the meantime, if Carlson gets a bunch of transfers from TN, then perhaps it becomes more difficult for existing CU runners to make the 17... but they are not under the gun to make an immediate decision.
More proof that Hilliard, George, and the CU athletic department has little regard for athletes.
That is how I would have handled it if I were in his shoes. Allows athletes at least a chance to improve and see if it's still the right fit and it allows Carlson to still focus on his recruiting goals for the program. Also agree that cutting athletes this close to the semester is a logistical nightmare.
Alex Baca (14:11/29:39) and Jake Derouin (13:59/29:39) were the only possible contributors. The rest were gathering dust on the shelf.
Really, if you had a good enough HS career to get on the team at perennial power Colorado and dont make an NCAA meet individually by 21 or end of redshirt sophomore year, it likely isnt happening unless you get tue greyshirt like Joe Bosshard and a miracle.
Carlson got rid of the fat in the program.
Carlson and Wetmore, both getting rid of the fat at Colorado
What’s crazy is the people saying it’s just a business are actually completely wrong. Track and XC loses money so if it was a business it would have to declare bankruptcy. If you’re going to act like a football coach don’t be surprised if your team gets cut because you aren’t producing money like a football coach does
A business can lose money for an extended period of time. For well over 10 years Twitter had net losses on the order of 100s of millions of dollars. Not to mention non profits.
It is a bad analogy anyway. Sports like xc are more like a marketing department for a company than a standalone business. They are not expected to directly generate revenue. Nike doesn’t pay athletes millions of dollars because they own running stores directly selling shoes.
It is misguided at best to think XC should behave like some sort of standalone business.
What is the story? I still don't get it. It is a lengthy discussion because people are complaining. News outlets publish stories that make them money. If there is a story, somebody will report on it. Bit there isn't.
May I offer the following: As a walk on in the early seventies, I was told by a new hire/coach that I did not fit in his plans for cross country and track. I was cut.
I was angry, upped my mileage, and determined to prove him wrong. A month later, at the new coach's time trial I made the team. A little fire in the gut can reverse their CU future.
Early 70s? So you put in extra work to make it under 15:30 for the 5k and got your spot back?
The time trial required all walk ons to run sub 9:15 for 2 miles on track. I ran a 9:04. And yes it should have been a 5K distance.
What’s crazy is the people saying it’s just a business are actually completely wrong. Track and XC loses money so if it was a business it would have to declare bankruptcy. If you’re going to act like a football coach don’t be surprised if your team gets cut because you aren’t producing money like a football coach does
A business can lose money for an extended period of time. For well over 10 years Twitter had net losses on the order of 100s of millions of dollars. Not to mention non profits.
It is a bad analogy anyway. Sports like xc are more like a marketing department for a company than a standalone business. They are not expected to directly generate revenue. Nike doesn’t pay athletes millions of dollars because they own running stores directly selling shoes.
It is misguided at best to think XC should behave like some sort of standalone business.
I think perhaps the business analogy is getting lost on people, so here's a simpler way to look at it. For everyone on here who has a job - your employer has set expectations for what you are supposed to do, achieve, etc. You almost certainly have performance reviews to determine if you're meeting them and what you can do differently to achieve them. Ultimately what they expect from you is what you have to do.
Coaches are expected to win. Now many schools have specific focuses - conference championships, nationals, whatever they decide the expectation is. Admins (or good ones) do not micromanage their coaches. They give them free reign to run their program how they see fit to achieve these goals. If that means cutting kids - they'll cut them. If that means replacing your staff - you replace them. We see this every day in the large, marquee sports. Seeing it in a sport like cross country strikes you as mean, wrong, etc. Why?
My theory is: because our sport until you get to college is a freebie. No one is trying out for cross country or track. It's an all comers situation. We love participation. But that isn't big time P4 athletics, and that is what Colorado is.
Someone else pointed out that there will still be programs that take time and develop kids - and that's true. It will be more the G5, mid major programs. The P4 is really moving toward how football and basketball operate - we expect results and we expect them now. Unreasonable? There are absolutely AD's who have no clue and don't understand it's not REALLY feasible but it doesn't change the job of the coach to at least try and appease.
Patience is a dying commodity in our society which is really the sad part of all of this.
Some high schools have cuts. But they are in the minority. Too many people on this site have supported runners going to schools where they would barely make the team. This situation will make people rethink decisions and recommendations.
No one wants to coach anymore. I've been saying it for a few years now. It's all about "How much are you going to pay me"? I've always said that ANYONE can a take an established foreign runner and throw out some workouts and enjoy the results. It's way too difficult to recruit young American talent and develop them for 4 years. I'm not saying to ignore foreign talent, but you can limit the number of roster spots, say 80% American- 20% Foreign, etc... It's not that difficult, IF you know what you're doing and love what you do. There's WAY TOO MUCH job hopping around to find the perfect situation. I thought Carlson had the dream gig at UT? What if he bombs out at CU? If he's as good as advertised, he should CRUSH at CU with all of the home-grown altitude ready talent in Colorado.
That's more of an admin problem than a coaching problem. Impatient AD's who know very little about the sport and simply look at placement at nationals have led to a shift in recruiting strategies. The coaches at the big programs are on shorter leashes now as the pressure to win now increases which leads to an increase in focusing more on ready made talent. It's unfortunate because there are so many diamond in the rough success stories but those are becoming more rare at this level. Oh well. There are still programs that develop, they're just smaller.
It’s weird to me that a P4 needs to go International that’s usually a mid-major tool to compete with the big boys since all the top American talent run for the P4 football schools. A P4 like Colorado has no need to run for internationals if they’re getting the top colorado runners, if the coach can coach that is. Hopefully these changes in roster limits and the need to win will mean more top Americans diversifying and going to smaller schools that want them
From the self proclaimed and famous interview “I recruit and develop Americans.” Sean Carlson has cut 9 American men from the Colorado roster, without an attempt to develop the athletes at all. Colorado is known for having their American runners being built and trained to be tough as nails.
Charlie Welch Alex Baca Benjamin Greene Nolan Hoffman Evan Charkut Stefan Haug Jack Nauman Jacob Culig Jake Derouin
Another power hungry coach that doesn’t care about his image of being a good coach vs buying a roster. I guess Carlson has decided to follow the wave of the foreign train. Unfortunately it seems the glory days of Covid are in the past.
What do my fellow Buff Alum think about this mass exodus of athletes from Colorado?
Who are these guys? They were not contributing anyways. Next
Getting cut sucks, yet if it were me, I’d enroll at Regis U, just down the street in Denver’s, establish themselves as a complete cohort, be part of the start of a program with a new young coach, and keep rolling! Everything is easier said than done, yet why not be THE PROGRAM right next door?
