I ran on a top D3 team and we were better than some D1 schools in cross country. We had a couple of D1 guys who decided to move back home and another guy who probably had D1 talent didn’t run at all at high school so was undiscovered (me)
But we never finished better than 3rd at D3 nationals, so a couple of other D3 teams from that era were also likely better than some D1 teams.
Ohio State is not the best XC team in Columbus.
If they would race some other DIII school in Columbus they would probably lose.
Benedict wrote:
Does anyone who is critiquing Georgetown's "race" understand NCAA rules about the first meet of the season and when formal practice can begin? There is a short window preceding a team's first competition of the season for team's to have formal practice. It is something like 2 weeks (and there may be some other guidelines depending on when the semester starts). It is a very common practice for team's to participate in late August or early September meets that are very low key - shorter distances like 5Ks for the men or running with a B/C squad to be able to start official practice by a certain date and meet the NCAA requirements. How they "race" is all part of their coach's training plan...as is whether to hold back or not race any particular athlete.
I have no rooting interest for Georgetown but this common. Stanford, which doesn't start their semester until later in September, used to participate in the USF Invitational first week of September so they could head out for 2 weeks of camp before school started. They fielded a small team, ran it as a workout and met the NCAA requirements. These early season meets mean absolutely nothing which is one of the reason's they don't count for NCAA at large selection purposes.
Nothing you've said excuses them from racing when they show up.
Results so we can judge for ourselves?
More excuses wrote:
Benedict wrote:
Does anyone who is critiquing Georgetown's "race" understand NCAA rules about the first meet of the season and when formal practice can begin? There is a short window preceding a team's first competition of the season for team's to have formal practice. It is something like 2 weeks (and there may be some other guidelines depending on when the semester starts). It is a very common practice for team's to participate in late August or early September meets that are very low key - shorter distances like 5Ks for the men or running with a B/C squad to be able to start official practice by a certain date and meet the NCAA requirements. How they "race" is all part of their coach's training plan...as is whether to hold back or not race any particular athlete.
I have no rooting interest for Georgetown but this common. Stanford, which doesn't start their semester until later in September, used to participate in the USF Invitational first week of September so they could head out for 2 weeks of camp before school started. They fielded a small team, ran it as a workout and met the NCAA requirements. These early season meets mean absolutely nothing which is one of the reason's they don't count for NCAA at large selection purposes.
Nothing you've said excuses them from racing when they show up.
Exactly. Hold guys out if you don't want them racing but don't dishonor the sport by sending guys to a competition and say they weren't competing.
Whoyah Saxa wrote:
just some real thoughts wrote:
It does matter who's resting, actually. Beating the JV squad on their tempo run isn't "insane."
No, that is insane. A DI program, especially one supposed to be a regional and one-time national power, should never send 5 athletes to the line and lose to a DIII program.
That result is far worse than most of these early season meets of zero import that teams run to mark the opening of a comp season.
It's not insane. Unfortunately our sport doesn't punish teams for mailing in a meet with a lesser squad. Notre Dame loses at National Catholic on occasion. These things are not that uncommon.
Alex87 wrote:
just some real thoughts wrote:
It does matter who's resting, actually. Beating the JV squad on their tempo run isn't "insane."
Would a DIII football squad beat Ohio State's second string? A DI team should have the talent top to bottom to beat any DIII.
Wait, you thought this was a sufficient analogy? Do you know how many guys on Ohio State's football team have a full scholarship?
Makes sense - if you are saying none of the Georgetown runners started running until practice officially started . Sounds to me like those sneaky Johns Hopkins runners were sneaking in runs during the summer . Pretty bad .
There is no competition at this stage of the season. No one is running these early season meets with their A team nor are the one's who do run actually racing. The NFL just had week 1. They've played 4 pre-season games that don't count for anything. Week 1 it starts counting. The XC equivalent is of the NFL pre-season are these early season meets.
blue jason wrote:
Hopkins is the best distance team in Maryland, the rest of the so called Div. 1 programs are garbage in the crab state.
You can call it the Old Line State or the Land of Pleasant Living. Pick your choice.
The Crab State ? Nah.
Crowd Sorcerer wrote:
Results so we can judge for ourselves?
Easy to find if you try.
https://d2o2figo6ddd0g.cloudfront.net/0/8/aprm38scc8au2t/men-s_results.pdfhttps://hopkinssports.com/news/2019/8/30/mens-cross-country-blue-jays-start-strong-with-sweep-at-mount-st-marys-duals.aspxThere's a much smaller gap in talent between DI and DIII cross country than there is in DI and DIII football. Because of the lack of scholarships, many very solid high school runners go DIII. Tons of 9:15-9:25 guys and occasionally guys closer to or even under 9 go DIII. Football players ranked that high would never go DIII as they'd certainly have to pass on a scholarship at a very good school.
Alex87 wrote:
just some real thoughts wrote:
It does matter who's resting, actually. Beating the JV squad on their tempo run isn't "insane."
Would a DIII football squad beat Ohio State's second string? A DI team should have the talent top to bottom to beat any DIII.
Coming from a very successful D3 program in New England, I can honestly say that the D1's around here at least need to get off of their high horses. With the exception of maybe Dartmouth, the Top 3 D3 teams can annually hold their own against the top 3 D1's in New England, for men at least.
So Georgetown didn't run anyone that broke 16. Cool - congrats I guess.
My gripe with John Hopkins is that its enrollment is 26,000 . With its resources and enrollment, it's questionable about whether it really should be a DIII school.
I can't remember the last time the top 3 D1 teams actually raced at New Englands. The top d3 teams that are racing d1 teams are battling against 2nd tier D1 programs such as Umass Amherst or BC
Kung Pow Chicken wrote:
My gripe with John Hopkins is that its enrollment is 26,000 . With its resources and enrollment, it's questionable about whether it really should be a DIII school.
Um, check again, the undergrad enrollment is 5600. they have a large graduate enrollment, lots of med students etc., they are not participating in athletics.
These "Crab state" runners you speak of are really in 14:40-15 min shape EASY.
The course was measured long by about 1/8th a mile. Not to mention the hills. Easily 500ft elevation gained on the course. How do I know?? I was in the race.
I'm not picking sides, but I did this meet with two different universities (transferred) and watched as a spectator. I would never classify this course as hilly, though I'll meet you half-way and say that because it is so open out near Mount St. Mary's that the sun and wind can feel fierce on the right day. These times are consistent with guys who were running low 25s for 8k later in the season on a moderate course. I can't speak on behalf of every school in this race, but it is a popular race for underclassmen or guys who aren't racing the Naval Academy meet (if that's still around) the upcoming week or two. I ran 16:0X there when I was a freshman and was not ready to run varsity, and that was a solid effort. Even then our coach told us to keep a pack and only turn it on the last 1/2 mile or so.
That's gotta be their mid distance squad or something