Road Racing and Training Thread, Week Ending September 1, 2019

Male / 40 yrs / 178 lbs

Goals (Still):

1. Sub 3 marathon in 2019

2. Sub 1:25 half in 2019

Weekly mileage: 49.5

M - 4 easy

Tu - 6 easy

W - 2 easy, 4 miles @ 6:50, 2 easy

Th - 7 easy

F - 8 recovery

Sa - 16.3 slow in the hills

Su - 14 steady

Weekly distance: 63.5 miles

Weekly time: 9:30 hours

Wednesday: First real workout in this cycle. Tried to run tempo effort by feel and landed at 6:50 pace. Just a few months back, this was my goal marathon pace. Last week, I basically sucked :)

Saturday: Went out in the local trails with friends. Was planning to run about 10 ish miles, but got carried away and ran 16+ miles. Very easy pace, generally. 3000 ft elevation gain.

Sunday: Plan was to run 16 steady when I planned the week. But, after Saturday's run, 13-14 seemed like a good number to aim for. Got 14 miles at about 7:35, mostly running by feel at a faster than easy effort. Quite happy with the run.

Overall: Feel like I am beginning to get into a little bit of shape. Still about 30 - 35 secs/mile slower than the goal marathon pace for CIM. 14 more weeks to go - I am hopeful, but sub-3 feels like a pipe dream now.

Thurs - 12 miles bike @ 17.9 mph avg

Finally got my butt out of the house for a ride. It was fun, though I really hate being hunched over the handlebars. I have the back of a nearly 50-year old.

But, it's a good time to be injured. I accepted a job in Salt Lake City and will be moving in less than 2 weeks. Can't wait. I've been working my tail off on a minor remodel of the kitchen. Still need to fix the roof, redo a few flowerbeds, and replace the rotted wood on the front porch. Doable in 10 days, along with packing a few things for the drive? Fingers crossed the house sells before the next hurricane....

Injury-wise, I think I'm healing. Slowly. I won't mind taking another month off to move and cross train before trying to run again. I'd like to get this thing fully healed before any more marathon cycles.

Posting every three weeks is kind of awful, but I promise that I am reading and following constantly!

So the 3 weeks since my 5000m PB. Idea was to keep them fairly easy in preparation for a 10000m race yesterday.

WC August 12th -

6 x 1k off 200m - 3:09, :06, :05, :04, :05, :06

4 x 30s on/90s jog - 4 x 1 mile tempo - 2 x 30s on/90s jog (30s @ 1500m effort, miles 5:31-5:32)

16.5m long run in 1:59

61+ mile week

WC 19th August

4 x 200m, 6 x 400m, 4 x 200m off equal jog (32-33 200s, 69-71 400s)

16.8m long run in 2:00

64+ mile week

WC 26th August

4 x (500m, 60s rest, 300m) off 3min - 4 x 200m (85s 500m, 47s 300m, 30-32 200m)

And..... illness.

18.5 mile week

So taper week was going like a dream, seemed like a good group of us were committed to running 78s laps (32:30 pace) and then I got a horrific stomach bug on Friday morning. Barely been out of bed since although feeling better today and able to eat. Absolutely gutting to miss the race and to have such a bad week of running in general.

In theory I have my No. 1 goal race in 10 days, another track 5000m. But frankly I'm not sure how strong/fit I'll be after last week. Obviously no way of knowing without actually running (which I should be able to do tonight or tomorrow). Ideally I'd run a couple of sessions between now and then but that may just blow me up. Tough decisions. Easy running until the race or just try and find a bit more sharpness this week?

On the plus side, really glad I ran a good 5000m a few weeks ago now! Otherwise the summer would be for naught.

Comments to follow.

Female, 45, 5'4", 106

PRs 5:25/18:51/38:56/1:02:28/1:24:22/2:57:42

Goal races: 5th Avenue Mile, Columbus Half-Marathon, Indianapolis Monumental Marathon

Goal times: Sub-5:30 for mile, 18:30 for 5K, 1:23:xx for half, sub-2:55 for full

66 miles, 3 hours of pool-running, and 3000 yards of swimming

M: Yoga and 70 minutes of pool-running

T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 2x1600, 2x800. Split 6:03, 5:54, 2:55, 2:50. Recoveries of 4:55 and 5:05 after 1600s, 2:48 between the 800s. Also leg strengthwork and 1200 yards recovery swimming.

W: 8 miles very easy (9:00), drills and strides, yoga, and then 4 miles very easy (8:48).

Th: Upperbody weights, core and 1 hour 50 minutes of pool-running.

F: 12.5 miles, including a track workout of 3200, 1600 in 12:19 (6:20/5:59) and 5:53. 4:44 recovery between the two. Followed with two hill sprints, leg strengthwork and 1250 yards recovery swimming.

Sa: 8 miles very easy (8:50), drills and strides, upper body weights/core and DIY yoga and then 4 miles very easy (8:25) plus some drills (no strides).

Su: 17 miles, including 4, 3, 2, and 1 miles at marathon effort with 1 mile moderate (high 7:xx) between each. Split as:

4 miles in 27:37 (7:01/6:58/6:49/6:49; average 6:54)

3 miles in 20:12 (6:46/6:44/6:42; average 6:44)

2 miles in 13:27 (6:40/6:47; average 6:44)

1 mile in 6:45

Followed with injury prevention work and 550 yards recovery swimming.

So....when last we left off, I was feeling very tired and wondering if I was starting to dig a hole. So....I made a point of extra sleep, water, electrolytes on Sunday and Monday, and also pulled back on my Monday schedule some. Oh...and I also got my magic once-a-month allergy suppressing shot on Monday.

And....woke up on Tuesday morning feeling pretty good. Gave the workout a try, and it went very well. I did limit myself to the shorter side of the workout (we had our choice of 2-4 800s, I called it after 2) since I saw no point in pushing things given how lousy I felt less than 48 hours previous.

The rest of the week went pretty well also. Good mileage and solid workouts. This coming week will be a pull-back, since I'm racing 5th Avenue Mile on Sunday. Then after that, it's full steam to Columbus and Indy.

Shoutouts/comments:

Gordon Tremesko - love the reference to the "Hoosier Hustle". Good decision on Tuesday - "better one rep too few than one too many"

Tall dark roast - congrats on a solid performance! I'd feel really good about that one too, given where you are in your build up.

Jot Quill - Another good week! Looking forward to cheering for you at 5th Avenue Mile.

Slo-twitch - good luck in the 5K. I agree with you on the point that it's totally fine for marathon effort now to not equal one's goal marathon pace in November.

Stone Cutter - nice weeks for both of you. Oh yes, I remember the Strawberry Mansion Hill from the Philly Love Run last year.

Coach Jeff - all we can do is our best.

3283823 - the smiling thing has always worked for me. Just relaxes your whole upper body.

runrincerepeat - sorry about the racing issues on Saturday. It's always hard to change at the last minute.

Pappy - which training rule did you break?

Outside runner - somehow I'm not surprised that you would be sore after Patrick Henry. Great job there BTW!

Napper - good week. Interesting about the Garmin - they are so individual.

Thoughtsleader - good week. I know NYC just well enough to have some understanding of where you ran. I imagine you hit a few lights between the West Side Highway and the park?

Sub 6:00 - !!! on that Friday workout. That's a heck of an effort. As for shoes, FWIW, I've found the Vaporfly NEXT to be a much more versatile shoe than the original VFs - it is more nimble and works better for shorter distances.

Mollusk - I run my easy runs off of HR, with a low HR floor. Also helps to remember that a slower easy run is going to feel tedious, and possibly less comfortable than the medium pace we all like to gravitate to.

Angry Johnny - that's a solid week there. Almost taper time!

Cocoon - 14 weeks is a long time. And..you don't need or want to be in shape now; you want to be in shape in early December.

Jewbacca - congrats on the new job and good luck with the move.

HHH Runner - I am so sorry about the stomach bug - that sucks.

From last week: Allen - I very much enjoyed the race report. I know the time was frustrating, but you fought well and that's always to be celebrated. I do hope to read more of your posts.

33/5-6/154

PRs: 2:59:15 (2018), 1:25:54 (2014), 39:54 (2018)

Chicago in 41 days

M - 8 with 6 * 800 w 400 easy btw - 3:00 - 2:59 - 2:59 - 2:55 - 2:58 - 2:55 - 17:46 for 4800

T - 6 @ 8:30 AM / 4.5 @ 8:48 PM

W - 11.5 total w 8 @ 6:50

T - 8 @ 8:20

F - 6 @ 8:05

Sa - 22 @ 7:42 - closed last 3 in 7:01 - 6:50 - 6:33. All about time on my feet otherwise

Su - 7 @ 8:24

73 in 9:36.

That’s a lifetime mileage high. Feeling pretty good about the week and very good about progress the past handful of weeks. Have been recovering really well this cycle. Started taking a magnesium supplement, and the God awful cramping I was used to ensuring has nearly disappeared.

GT: Rock solid week, all around.

TDR: wow, nice racing. And a score for easy miles and strides.

JQ: Looking quick, good luck at the mile.

slo: 110 miles, gonna be some twilight.

Stone: I am intrigued by the difference in units of measure between you and the Mrs.

Coach Jeff: Great job keeping at it as you can.

328: Nice workouts, that's a ton of quality.

rrr: Looks like a great transition week.

Pappy: Big progress on the weight, way to be.

OR: Belated congrats on Patrick Henry and nice Sunday work!

More later, have a good Labor Day!

darkwave- in your experience do you think the next% are faster than the original and/or flyknit 4%?

race report-

on a cloudy Labor Day morning I awoke, anticipating greatness... just playing i don't have these kind of writing skills

5k- cloudy, 74 degrees, dew point 66

first place gets $120 shoe gift certificate. also i'm trying to defend my title.

the course is brutal. 180 feet of gain and the downhills are too steep to really reclaim the time. last year i ran 16:44 here and four weeks later ran 16:10 on a moderately fast course. i suck at climbing so my strategy is to save it for the downhills and the "flat" sections and try to run down the field late in the race with a hard negative split. i also suck at sprinting, so it needs to be a sustained push to break it open.

went with an OG pair of Vaporfly. first time racing a 5k in Vaporfly (i normally prefer something very light, but I'm trying to protect my legs to bounce back for workouts this week). no taper and i've run 110 miles in the week leading up to this, so I'm not expecting much. rough goal is average 3:20/k for the first 3k and then drop it down to 3:10-3:15/k for the last 2k to finish around 16:20-16:30. i see a few guys on the line that i don't know who look decent

we're off. i'm in about 5th. gradual uphill then gently rolling, the last part of the first k starts the big climb. 3:21 first k, i'm in second about 5 or 6 seconds back.

flattens out, trending a little downhill i think. i'm trying to close the gap. leader hits mile in 5:18, i'm at 5:20. everyone else is gone. second k, 3:13... a bit brisk. 180 degree turnaround after this, which sucked as far as momentum especially in the Vaporfly. back through slight rolling trending slightly up. i had the gap down to nothing but it opens back up again. 3rd k- 3:21. the turnaround sucked and i lost some momentum.

we hit the downhill and i have to make a move. came through 2 miles at 10:30 (it was a steep 200m of downhill after 3k). i go by hard and hop into the lead. it flattens out and dude claims it back. i just start drafting. 3:08 4th k.

gradual downhill and i take the lead again, opening up a couple seconds. there is one tough hill coming, then a slight downhill and flat into the park. he hits the uphill savage and i'm dropped hard. i'm thinking maybe i can come back on the little downhill, but no chance... his last 800m was 2:20 or better including the climb. my last k was 3:08, maybe 3:07 (the watch was exactly lined up with the course). so about 5:00 pace for the last 2k, which is net downhill but no faster than a flat course in my opinion. anyway he hammers puts 10 seconds on me and i finish 16:11 for second. still :33 faster than i ran here last year and i feel good about the fitness. the guy who one has a marathon PR six minutes faster than me and a half PR three minutes faster. i picked up a smaller gift certificate and will still probably get the next%

keep hammering!

*won not *one... sorry using voice

slo-twitch wrote:

darkwave- in your experience do you think the next% are faster than the original and/or flyknit 4%?

I think the Next% is the more versatile of the two - more useful for 5Ks and the like. I've worn it for my last two road miles, as have many others.

For the marathon distance, I think I'd still go with the original 4% - that one has more of a rolling action that conveys well to that distance.

Also worth noting that the Next% has improved traction over the original VF, but it's still not comparable to the Adidas outsole.

GT: Nice week! Looking forward to the Hoosier Hustle. That quote is billboard worthy. SMH

TDR: Nice week! Great job in the race! Very good sign of things to come.

jot quill:Impressive workouts. I'm sure you'll figure out how to fit the mile in correctly.

slo-twitch: Wow! Someday I hope to have a half as unremarkable week. Great job. Could of the temps on Tuesday slowed the last 10?

SC: Very nice. Looks like your hitting all your marks. You probably got a lot out of Th too.

Mrs. Stone: Looking good. As far as the side stitch, it happens. It's better to go under than over anyways with workouts.

Coach Jeff: I'm liking your training this build better too. Reminds me of that quote "People who fail to plan, plan to fail" I also believe people that stick to plans rigidly are destine to fail too. Looking forward to seeing another PR. Thanks for the HR wisdom.

3283823: Nice week! Doing great. 70k a week is pretty good. What kinda pace are your easy runs?

RRR: No worries on that race. Great week.

OR: Great recovery week! Do you think the on/offs or the halfs helped? Looks like you finished the week strong.

Napper: Great week!

THOUGHTSLEADER: Good job on the week LR and workout!

Sub 6:00: Impressive week! I doubt you will have an issue with the 2 LT workouts close together, should actually help, I would think. The 5k pace work, are you doing it to improve VO2max or to help increase efficiency?

The mollusk: Good luck on slowing down. Try singing yourself a song. If you get out of breath slowdown and practice a better tone.

angryjohnny: Looking really good.

cocoon: Looks like you are in a very good spot. 30-35 sec in 14 weeks is very doable.

jewbacca: Get an adjustable stem off of amazon. You wont be hunched over. Best of luck on the move and improvements.

HHH Runner:Dang hope you feel better quick. If you run the race just make sure you don't get in O2 debt to quick.

Yes definitely hit some lights. I used as an opportunity to have my gels and toss em out on both ends. My stomach didn’t do great with the first one...but I’m hoping it’s just not having done one in months. Once I got back to the park for the end of my run I felt like I could blast a few sub-6:30 miles.

@slo-twitch great race and report, looks like you really smart race, but that guy was just a buzz saw.

@cocoon those are great long runs to stack back-to-back, I think you might be in better shape than you think

@angryjohnny I don’t think I’ll ever run 111 miles in a week, but you’ve made it look unintimidating

@TDR still amazed by the 10:30-11 minute runs!

thanks Darkwave. the other thing i wonder about is the longevity of the pebax foam over time, even if there aren't a lot of miles on the shoe. this pair of original 4% has only 25 miles on them and still feels really good, even at almost two years old. the flyknit uppers on the 4% always bothered me, even with a thicker sock. did you go up 1/2 a size from original4% to flyknit and original to next%

Stone- looks good already and I know how quickly you can get in shape. stay legendary

Pappy- congrats on the weight loss and thanks for taking on leaderboard duties. conditions were pretty good for the 12/10, so i can't blame that. i was pretty tired going into and i didn't Vaporfly, so those are my only excuses!

OR- thanks man. I like those workouts of yours this week.

Napper- one word on that 10 mile tempo... hammering. i still remember you just about running me down in Chicago a few years ago! the 400s are brisk too. hoping that you all get some good conditions. i could definitely see you running under 6-minute pace for the race

speaking of sub-6... that 4-3-2-1 is on another level. i would have no chance at that. i don't think the paces for those workouts are too similar at all. I think you are underestimating your fitness a bit. My guess is that the mile repeats are probably around your 15k pace and the 4-3-2-1 is just a bit under marathon pace. I could see you hitting 5:35 pace or even faster on a good day in Chicago...especially with some Vaporfly

ThoughtsLeader- remind me when the next goal race is. i used to be a huge Boston Boost fan boy and still use them for some stuff.

Mollusk- I don't know that I would recommend running as slow as I do on easy days. I guess the overall pace might be a little misleading because it's not uncommon for my first mile to be around 10:00. i don't have mile splits on during easy runs, but it probably settles in around your same pace after i crawl around for those first several miles. some of my routes are fairly hilly and have trails too, but even on pretty flat routes i'm still slow. i think it really depends on how fast-twitch the runner is too.

AJ- the mileage alpha i see.

Triple H- rest up my friend, the oracle still says 5k PR at this upcoming race.

Napper: The tempo and long run back-to-back looks very very strong.

THOUGHTSLEADER: Smart adjustment on the Ks.

Sub6: I think you can run slow a few days a week if you are cranking out that many 5:15-5:30 miles, wow.

AJ: Heckuva week. You must be a sight to see throwing down sub-6:00 miles.

coccoon: Good sign that you have the fitness to get carried away and run 6 miles more on accident.

jewbacca: Good luck on the move and projects, that must be a full plate.

HHH: Sorry to hear about the illness, that is some great work leading up to it. FWIW, I would not try to achieve any additional sharpness. I would get healthy and then get the engine going again, but not really reach until the race.

darkwave: Sounds like maybe you've played it just right and built up the biggest head of steam possible heading into a quick taper. Best of luck on the mile. Have you done Columbus before? I'm looking at the full next year.

RGM: Great job on the mileage and on that Saturday LR.

slo: Great write up and mighty fine racing.

M, 31, 6'1" 155-160

Upcoming: half 10/13

M. 4.1 easy

T. morning 6 easy/ afternoon 8.2 easy

W. 5.8 easy

Th. 10 easy

F. 2 easy

S. 4 easy, then 3.2 fartlek, then 2 easy, then 2 tempo, then 1.5 easy for 12.7 total

S. 1 easy

Total: 49.8

Saturday turned into some kind of workout before I really noticed. Got good and warmed up and did about 10 surges of 20-60 seconds with 1-2 minutes easy between. Stopped 2-3 minutes for bathroom and water and decided to do 2 more around 6:00.

Not sure what this accomplished but it felt great. Later that night at a wedding, family members expressed concern and strangers expressed awe at the hurting I put on the buffet.

Measured Monday-Sunday, my last two weeks are 72-50. Measured Sunday-Saturday, they are 62-62. Irrelevant to my actual fitness, but I supposed the second way is "better?"

Lastly, I shall have to find a suitably constructed veranda off of which to pour a suitably refined beverage for Allen: fount of encouragement, good advice and accurate time predictions. Thanks and best wishes.

RunGuy: Congrats on the high mileage PR! Some good quality in there too.

slo-twitch: Great racing. Big improvement over last year.

darkwave: Impressive week again! Glad you're feeling better. What do you do for injury prevention?

I only have a few rules.

1. Get fit to run. (I tried running to get fit with little success or progress)

2. Protect and strengthen my knees.

3. Run by feel. Use the data points for things to work on later.

4. Be consistent

5. Don't run anything so hard that I need multiple days to recover.

So, I broke #5. I basically took a bunch of days off because I ran too hard. Had a headache, felt like I was getting the flu and very fatigued. Basically, I'm still in poor shape and have no lactate tolerance. Mentally I'm good, physically can't do it yet.

Do we still have a Strava group? I switched watches and have a different email tied to it.

slo-twitch: I wear size 6 in the OG VF4%, the Flyknit 4%, and the Next%. I had to wear thick socks with the OG, and thin socks with the Flyknit and the Next%. The Next% is the tightest fit of the three.

Pappy - I'm very fragile, so it takes a LOT to keep me healthy.

The daily routine is about 10 minutes of hip flexor/quad stretching, 6 minutes of wobble board exercises, and foam rolling each evening. I also have a morning routine that combines yoga and some glute activation work that I do before I run.

Then....after hard workouts, I do stuff like eccentric calf dips, eversion/inversion foot work with a TheraBand, eccentric hamstring curls with a exercise ball, reverse planks on my elbows, step-ups onto a bench. If I don't have a race coming up, I'll also add in some heavier strengthwork like split squats or lunges with a barbell in a power cage; hip thrusters with a barbell on my hips; and single leg deadlifts with a pretty heavy dumbbell in one hand, weighted calf raises. I try to go high weight/3-6 reps on the weighted stuff, and also to keep the movement explosive to the extent I can.

Pappy - 90k this week, including warm-ups/cooldowns (is that allowed!!?). Easy pace is not even measured most of the time, but when it is, sits around 5:00/km.

Hey Pappy. I thought that was you on Strava. The "group" is at this link...

https://www.strava.com/clubs/letsrunracingtraining