13.19 guy that only rans 55 miles on average, to good to be true?

Reminds me of a Marty Liquori story:

Whatthe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wrote:

. Kind of like Solinsky describing Wiscon. mileage. What did they call the miles that were not at a certain pace??? They did not even count them. I mean he has got to be doing some jogging, warming and cooling etc. Come on! Remember Liquori talking about some Kenyan or something who only claimed he does like 60 a week. Marty said " Wait this does not add up..two a days?" The runner said "Yea I do run a 15 miler in the mornings, don't count that though." Marty said "Why is that." The runner said "The 15 each morning is for God." So got to add the 15 each day with the 60.

exception to the rule wrote:

Exceptions to the rule exist. There are individuals who can run pretty decent on low mileage. Here's the thing, there is a 99% chance you are not the exception to the rule, you would know if you were. The average person will have to put in mileage, if they want to get anywhere. The saying, "mileage makes champions" exist for a reason.

This is just words from a lesser knowledge.My experience as a coach shows that it's 99% chance that you will improve on low mileage,if you know how to do it correct of course.

Magic wand wrote:

exception to the rule wrote:

Exceptions to the rule exist. There are individuals who can run pretty decent on low mileage. Here's the thing, there is a 99% chance you are not the exception to the rule, you would know if you were. The average person will have to put in mileage, if they want to get anywhere. The saying, "mileage makes champions" exist for a reason.

This is just words from a lesser knowledge.My experience as a coach shows that it's 99% chance that you will improve on low mileage,if you know how to do it correct of course.

My experience is I get improvement via more mileage. Most people will too.

runn wrote:

OK, I'm not saying he does this, but:

When Filbert Bayi was at his best, there was Sports Illustrated article about him. The writer went to Tanzania and spent time with him.

Bayi supposedly only ran 50 miles a week.

First day there, Bayi gets up and the two of them run 7 miles to where he kind of worked.

Says he does this 5 days a week.

In the evening, Bayi goes through a workout 7 miles or so.

The reporter points out- you said you run 50 mpw, you've already run 14!

Bayi said- my morning run doesn't count, I'd do it whether I was a runner or not.

lol that's great

101 ways to skin a cat wrote:

Magic wand wrote:

This is just words from a lesser knowledge.My experience as a coach shows that it's 99% chance that you will improve on low mileage,if you know how to do it correct of course.

My experience is I get improvement via more mileage. Most people will too.

You have never tried the magic way via less mileage. You just didn't know how to make it perfect.

Mark Nenow on his training.

Bekele's WC 2009 was won in around 13:19(with an incredible last 3k). At the time he was probably averaging half that mileage. He is known for being injured a lot from 2010 onwards but he was also injured for nearly all the time between Beijing 2008 and the WC 2009. Yet he managed an amazing double. His 10,000m was 26:45 so almost 2 13:19's put together

MamothRunner wrote:

Hi all,

Via via I came to an account of a Belgian coach who is coaching most of the Belgian runners.

2 of them finished 4-5th on the 5K at Payton Jordan this year. Isaac Kimeli also ran against Jäger last year and was beaten in a sprintfinish.

His coach Tim Moriau posted the program of 1 of his guys that ran 13.19 at Stanford, averaging only 55miles a week!!

You can find the program on his instagram: moriautim

Let me think what you guys think about it, it seems to good to be true...

I've met various elite guys over the last years now and unless they are training for a marathon most of them reported an average about 100-120km per week which is in line with the posted logs of the Belgian Coach Tim. And it seems to be way more polarized that what us average Joes are doing. Easy runs are about 3:50-4:30 per km which is not very fast if your PR is sub 30 for 10k. No lactate and about 65% of maxHR I guess. Fast stuff is not about 2 killer workouts and then getting injured, but to be consistently clocking in 1-2 solid sessions per week. Not many recreational runners are doing this.

My question to Tim would be: How would you train the typical 16min 5k runner who is naturally lacking a high Vo2max and basic speed? Same approach with a lot of work on threshold during base and prep?

runn wrote:

OK, I'm not saying he does this, but:

When Filbert Bayi was at his best, there was Sports Illustrated article about him. The writer went to Tanzania and spent time with him.

Bayi supposedly only ran 50 miles a week.

First day there, Bayi gets up and the two of them run 7 miles to where he kind of worked.

Says he does this 5 days a week.

In the evening, Bayi goes through a workout 7 miles or so.

The reporter points out- you said you run 50 mpw, you've already run 14!

Bayi said- my morning run doesn't count, I'd do it whether I was a runner or not.

There was a story in Runner's World a long time ago by a guy who knew Mike Boit when Boit was in grad school at Stanford. Boit asked the author if he'd like to do a six mile run with him the next day. The author agreed and went to Boit's apartment. They run for six miles at a manageable pace and the run ends up at Stanford's track where Boit goes on to run six miles at maybe five minute pace and then explains to the author that those six miles on the track were what he'd meant when he asked the author to do a six mile run with him. The run to the track was just a a warm up.

The other thing you need to pay attention to here is the phrase "on average." One of Lydiard's lesser known guys was Jeff Julian who did mind boggling amounts of running in his base phase. He would get in 2,000 miles in those 10-12 weeks. Then he'd move onto other kinds of running with much less volume. Reportedly his AVERAGE daily miles in a year was about 11 despite the massive amounts done in his build up.

+1

Look at Steve Ovett, 100+ MPW in the off season, often less than 50 MPW during track season. Don't know his yearly average, but it doesn't show the whole picture.

MamothRunner wrote:

Hi all,

Via via I came to an account of a Belgian coach who is coaching most of the Belgian runners.

2 of them finished 4-5th on the 5K at Payton Jordan this year. Isaac Kimeli also ran against Jäger last year and was beaten in a sprintfinish.

His coach Tim Moriau posted the program of 1 of his guys that ran 13.19 at Stanford, averaging only 55miles a week!!

You can find the program on his instagram: moriautim

Let me think what you guys think about it, it seems to good to be true...

I would like to present the kind of program

that would attack ALL world records from 800m- marathon. I know, most of you will not believe me because most of you are stuck in a belief that high mileage( 100+ mpw) is the right way to go . But anyway, here is the basic structure:

Monday: 6-10 miles easy at about 5:40 mile pace

Tuesday: 20 x 400m at 60-61 sec , rest= wait easy walking until back to 120 bpm heartrate

Wednesday: 6-10 miles easy at about 5:40 mile pace

Thursday: 6-10 miles easy at about 5:40 mile pace

Friday: LT- intervals to a total of 6-10 miles at about 4:25-4:27 mile pace, rest=wait easy walking down to 120 bpm

Saturday: _10-25 miles at 5:40 mile pace ( only as a specific long run if the runner aim for half/marathon)

Sunday: Day off

A total of mostly 70 mpw!

There is a few runners out there in the running world capable of doing this kind of training and at perfect control.

I just hope I one day will coach such a great talent and prove to the running world what I say is demonstrably real.

Looks of course to be too "simple" in most eyes, but as I use to say it`s just a pace thing…..

Marc Smet - Belgian olympian from the 70s - trained 1hr/day. Was a full-time nurse.

13:23/27:48/2:10:00

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/belgium/marc-smet-10368

FelonDJT wrote:

Marc Smet - Belgian olympian from the 70s - trained 1hr/day. Was a full-time nurse.

13:23/27:48/2:10:00

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/belgium/marc-smet-10368

+1 !

MamothRunner wrote:

Hi all,

Via via I came to an account of a Belgian coach who is coaching most of the Belgian runners.

2 of them finished 4-5th on the 5K at Payton Jordan this year. Isaac Kimeli also ran against Jäger last year and was beaten in a sprintfinish.

His coach Tim Moriau posted the program of 1 of his guys that ran 13.19 at Stanford, averaging only 55miles a week!!

You can find the program on his instagram: moriautim

Let me think what you guys think about it, it seems to good to be true...

There are dozens of people who claim to have run sub 13:30 off

Can't use the less than sign

Effective training wrote:

FelonDJT wrote:

Marc Smet - Belgian olympian from the 70s - trained 1hr/day. Was a full-time nurse.

13:23/27:48/2:10:00

https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/belgium/marc-smet-10368

+1 !

7th in the '76 10k while having broken his arm falling at about 3k.

Competitive MF

No less than sign wrote:

Can't use the less than sign

High quality software:)

There are a zillion guys who claim to have run sub 13:30 off 50-60 mpw. See Jim Spivey, Justin Knight, Bob Kennedy the college years, Doug Padilla. Maybe they are all lying.

Maybe they would have run faster with more mileage. Maybe not. There are general tends of more mileage making you faster (and those trends are extra strong for mileage under about 90). But there are exceptions.

The thing is that most elite runners follow what most successful elite runners contemporary and earlier do/did. When more and more runners in the future see that it's excellent to achieve top results at low mileage , most will choose that path.