Glad to hear the Kranicks didn’t tell them to stop . It was disrespectful to all the runners in the race and a real show off move . I wonder if she will try that in the acc this fall?
Glad to hear the Kranicks didn’t tell them to stop . It was disrespectful to all the runners in the race and a real show off move . I wonder if she will try that in the acc this fall?
Sounds like this will be the first and last year that this rule is on the books, at least in this form.
It’s a show off move? I don’t care about any of these teams or individuals, but the rules are set up so that you can help your teammate qualify and that’s what they did. You sound like you don’t like this team for some other reason.
Kelsey Chmiel has NEVER been a showoff. She had tried to lead her young team by setting an example in sportsmanship. You probably don’t watch the end of the races when she shakes every competitor’s hand. Which of course is easy to do when she wins but she also appears to have a great relationship with Katelyn Touhy as well. You can see them laughing and joking on the podium. She could have run the 1500 yesterday but easily chose to go all out in the 4x800 because she is a team player. She will do what is best for her team in the ACCs next year.
Old timer Section 9 now far away wrote:
I don’t care about any of these teams or individuals, but the rules are set up so that you can help your teammate qualify and that’s what they did.
I also don't care about any of these teams or individuals, but certainly the intention of these rules was not for these types of situations to arise where people are playing around in races.
In indoor the top 2 go and the 3rd goes if they have the standard. There have been many athletes over the years who have finished third to allow others to qualify.
DeMars had the AL standard just not the super standard and Wheeler was close. Chmiel and Kurto were going for 3-4 to allow both to go if DeMars wanted to double. Obviously they were hoping Wheeler would either win or get the standard. She had dropped her PR to 10:06 it wasn’t completely out of the question. As it worked out DeMars scratched the 3k so Wheeler could go. DeMars also ran well off her steeple PR where she had the super standard which allowed Tenney to go. Whether DeMars scratched the 3k for Wheeler and or tempo’d a steeple for Tenney I suppose only she knows. If she did I don’t think that is being a bad sport personally.
Interesting that you and HDH both misspell Chmiel’s name the same way.
At the same meet, Noah Tindale ran a 2:28 800 and still qualified, as he had the same standard. The next day, the officials were saying if these shenanigans kept occuring, they were going to start DQ’ing athletes. Some athletes with the super standard in the 3000m steeplechase even DNF’d so they could qualify but not get DQ’ed
If they want to keep the superstandard and avoid this sort of situation, New York could do one of two things that I can think of.
1) Institute an honest effort rule, where athletes who are deemed to be performing below their ability are disqualified.
2) They could choose to not require athletes who have already hit the superstandard to compete in the event at all and simply advance directly to the state meet.
Thoughts? Other ideas?
Ozzie wrote:
If they want to keep the superstandard and avoid this sort of situation, New York could do one of two things that I can think of.
1) Institute an honest effort rule, where athletes who are deemed to be performing below their ability are disqualified.
2) They could choose to not require athletes who have already hit the superstandard to compete in the event at all and simply advance directly to the state meet.
Thoughts? Other ideas?
They should do away with the Stuper Standard all together. You may have the qualifying standard for the Olympics but you still have to be top 3 at the trials to go. With this Stuper Standard, someone could actually be injured and make it. You should be forced to prove you are race ready at the qualifier. Period.
Dr Taboo wrote:
Ozzie wrote:
If they want to keep the superstandard and avoid this sort of situation, New York could do one of two things that I can think of.
1) Institute an honest effort rule, where athletes who are deemed to be performing below their ability are disqualified.
2) They could choose to not require athletes who have already hit the superstandard to compete in the event at all and simply advance directly to the state meet.
Thoughts? Other ideas?
They should do away with the Stuper Standard all together. You may have the qualifying standard for the Olympics but you still have to be top 3 at the trials to go. With this Stuper Standard, someone could actually be injured and make it. You should be forced to prove you are race ready at the qualifier. Period.
I can guarantee that stunt killed the superstandard . It sounded like a good idea but coaches doing this stuff makes the sport look terrible
Hounddogharrier wrote:
Glad to hear the Kranicks didn’t tell them to stop . It was disrespectful to all the runners in the race and a real show off move . I wonder if she will try that in the acc this fall?
Oh, do shutup, we'll all appreciate it.
Fjjjjfcxfgg wrote:
Hounddogharrier wrote:
Glad to hear the Kranicks didn’t tell them to stop . It was disrespectful to all the runners in the race and a real show off move . I wonder if she will try that in the acc this fall?
Oh, do shutup, we'll all appreciate it.
Sorry Mr Chmiel!!!
Hounddogharrier wrote:
Dr Taboo wrote:
They should do away with the Stuper Standard all together. You may have the qualifying standard for the Olympics but you still have to be top 3 at the trials to go. With this Stuper Standard, someone could actually be injured and make it. You should be forced to prove you are race ready at the qualifier. Period.
I can guarantee that stunt killed the superstandard . It sounded like a good idea but coaches doing this stuff makes the sport look terrible
I don't necessarily agree. I think the superstandard is a good idea as it allows a very competitive section to send more athletes. If the three top NY athletes in an event are from one section should only two advance to states? I think the superstandard ensures the highest possible competition at the championship meet. I also don't think this is a coach-issue. I think it is a pretty easy decision for an athlete if the situation is:
-I have run 9:30 in the 3000.
-My teammate has run 10:10
And your two options:
1. run fast and use lots of energy with potentially more races later
2. run slower and let a teammate/friend go to states as well.
This decision is a no-brainer, coach involved or not. This is why I think superstandard athletes should not have to race. I actually think they should eliminate the 2nd place standard and make the superstandard slower. Further encouragement to race fast and then winner-take all.
And worried about an athlete with the superstandard now being injured? Sure, it's possible but I'd rather take the rare injured athlete in a race where the best of the state get to race instead of the race where some are left home. Besides, there are already some very slow people from bad sections qualifying; the injured person could likely still beat them :)
Hounddogharrier wrote:
Fjjjjfcxfgg wrote:
Oh, do shutup, we'll all appreciate it.
Sorry Mr Chmiel!!!
LOL Kelsey is far from a show-off. I didn't know the hounddog was a toga hater! I generally like your insight but you're pretty far off on this one. I'm assuming you've never paid much attention to her if you think that she is a show-off. She was just hoping to get her teammate the opportunity to run at the NYS meet, most likely a season long goal for the young runner.
My daughter races the saratoga girls at local league meets throughout the season, they are head and shoulders above the rest of the runners and aren’t showboaty whatsoever. Chmile is a class act and simply wanted to qualify her teammate, her and kurto should be praised for their sportsmanship instead of being punished. They are two of the best runners in New York and don’t deserve to be patronized by you assholes.
Year's from now, these kids can tell their kids about the time they qualified for state because their teammates took a dive in the qualifying race. Ah the memories.
tgi. wrote:
Stillwater sprintz wrote:
I was there and never saw 2 kids STOP 50 yards from finish and then run: just my opinion but I think it was chemiel saying F U to the shen parents there . Real lack of class .
This is the dumbest comment I've ever seen.
The plan for the Toga girls was to go 1-2-3, with Kelsey and Ella pacing Wheeler. Wheeler wins, Ella/Kelsey go 2-3 and they all go. Worst comes to worst, they pace her to the state at large standard and they go 2-3-4 in the same order with Faith winning.
Kelsey and Ella ran the state standard pace, like planned, and Wheeler started fading. They continued to run the pace that she needed to run, and once they realized that Faith was going to win and their teammate was not going to hit the mark, they decided the only chance she had of going was to still let her get second.
Kelsey asked her coach on the backstretch what to do. He said "just go finish", in sort of a defeated tone. Kelsey immediate started asking if they could let their teammate get second because it didn't really matter what they finished, and that was her only shot. Her coach quickly agreed and said "that's fine, do what you think you need to do." So they slowed down and let Wheeler go by.
Kelsey's hunch was correct, as Faith did not declare for the 3km because she had the Super Standard in the steeple the next day and was going to run that. So once Faith didn't declare, Wheeler was the next finisher and was invited to the state meet.
So all in all, the Toga girls and coaches had the right plan in mind, and eventually did the right thing to maximize their chances of going to the state meet. And it worked out fine.
The real problem is that even those with the Super Standard need to run the race. The rule should be written so those with the Super Standard just have to participate in the meet (the meet already has standards, so you can't enter Kelsey in the shot put, it would still have to be in a race she has qualified for the meet in). If you participate at the meet, you can declare for any event in which you qualify, including any race you had the Super Standard. That's how it should be laid out.
In this instance, both Chmiel and Kurto ran the 4x8 the next day, and that should allow them to declare for the 3km as well because of their Super Standard marks.
Stuff like this happened in the boys 800m, 3200m, 3km steeple, PV; girls 800m, 3km, 2km steeple just at the Section 2 meet alone (and maybe others I didn't hear about). Poor wording and poor foresight ruined the meet for many kids. The officials threw a hissy fit, but didn't they understand that the way the rule was written that the kids were going to try to help each other out and get as many of their local competitors, teammates, and friends to the meet as possible?
But your proposal doesn't actually do anything to help this situation if Chmiel and Kurto run the event trying to help Wheeler hit the time; then they wind up in this exact situation again.
saw some similar tactics from some teams at the section 1 qualifier tonight- while it may have helped some more great teams and individuals qualify, it did take away from the excitement of some of the races.
Niles wrote:
Hounddogharrier wrote:
Sorry Mr Chmiel!!!
LOL Kelsey is far from a show-off. I didn't know the hounddog was a toga hater! I generally like your insight but you're pretty far off on this one. I'm assuming you've never paid much attention to her if you think that she is a show-off. She was just hoping to get her teammate the opportunity to run at the NYS meet, most likely a season long goal for the young runner.
Maybe I’m old school, but this was probably the most classless move I’ve ever seen. Two runners are 10 seconds up on the field and then stop 50 yards from the finish line is about as low as it gets. If they just had to jog to go to States, why were they running out front? If they were pacing their teammate why did they surge with 1200 meters to go and break their teammate? And the argument that they wanted the Ballston Spa runner to go is a joke. Saratoga is so competitive they would put land mines on the track rather than let another school go to states. What they did was exactly what was planned.
The next day the sectional chairman called a coaches meeting and, without naming names , lectured about what a sleazy move it was. The icy on the cake was (to the best of my knowledge) the Kranicks skipped the meeting and the Saratoga coaches there ( who may have been the boys coaches) had big smirks on their faces.