jkespn wrote:
You guys realize that Kipchoge was running marathons before Tinman started training professionals, right? Tinman is in year 2 of serious coaching, unless you call a high school miler serious coaching. I don't.
Absolutely stellar results for such a neophyte of a coach! At this rate, someday he will be looked back upon as one of the all-time greats.
If he went 100% he would be doing a 2:01 Marathon every day.
This is not new, this is not news. You kids need to keep up with Patrick Sang philosophy.
It only takes 80% to improve 60 to maintain wrote:
If he went 100% he would be doing a 2:01 Marathon every day.
But he trains at 7000 feet altitude, so his 80% VO2 max is 65%
So he's miscalculating.
What he really means is that he trains at 98% but it only feels like 80%
Obviously it works for him
Doesn’t mean it works for everyone. In all sports, whatever the top guy is doing, that becomes the template for everyone else.
I also think EK has a pain tolerance that is off the charts so his 80% is a relative term.
Yes, he doesn't work his ass off. He works the appropriate amount. For example the training I do now (USATF/Olympic trials type of runner) would have destroyed me when I was in high school or college, it would've been a full out race every day in practice. But at my level the training is all manageable, it's never all-out. It's one step back so that every workout is a successful one and I'm alive to do another workout in a few days. If Kipchoge were to do his marathon workouts extremely hard all of the time he wouldn't be recovered yet for the next one. That's why you don't race a marathon very often, because it takes so long to recover and get strong again. In distance events you dig yourself into a hole if you're going all out in practice. You need to run 'fast enough' and once that pace becomes 'easy enough' you can then train slightly faster than before and you get faster.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
1) This once again proves that Tinman-oriented training ("keep the ball rolling") is not just the best to get to a decent level, but also very good for elites.
2) You gotta love his modesty. “My preparation has been good. I am fit,” he said. “I think I will have a good result.” Compare that to American runners, like Ritz claiming they gonna win Boston Marathon and then running 2:17 or something. Kipchoge actually got the right to brag, but he is still extremely modest and doesn't underestimate his competition. He knows anything can happen on race day.
Ritz said nothing *remotely* like what you said.
Is your problem that you can't read, or just that you have a nasty disposition, and don't like Ritz?
I wouldn’t call it critical velocity training but threshold training. Aerobic threshold running is not running all out at its realest meaning. If anything his fartleks would be the closest to critical velocity training but even still.
sp2 wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
1) This once again proves that Tinman-oriented training ("keep the ball rolling") is not just the best to get to a decent level, but also very good for elites.
2) You gotta love his modesty. “My preparation has been good. I am fit,” he said. “I think I will have a good result.” Compare that to American runners, like Ritz claiming they gonna win Boston Marathon and then running 2:17 or something. Kipchoge actually got the right to brag, but he is still extremely modest and doesn't underestimate his competition. He knows anything can happen on race day.
Ritz said nothing *remotely* like what you said.
Is your problem that you can't read, or just that you have a nasty disposition, and don't like Ritz?
No, the problem is that LateRunnerPhil is really one of the letsrun staff and you're all being trolled.
Tinman fan wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
1) This once again proves that Tinman-oriented training ("keep the ball rolling") is not just the best to get to a decent level, but also very good for elites.
Maybe Tinman is secretly coaching Kipchoge? On some other thread some poster pointed out that Kipchoge was doing critical velocity training .... That really would put Tinman into legendary coaching status.
God do people seriously think Tinman invented this kind of training? "Critical velocity" is just 10k pace/cruise intervals under a different name, and people having been training in a "train don't strain" fashion for decades...some people really are so dumb.
Unfair wrote:
If I did things at my job at 80% I’d be fired
The job is racing, not training.
If he raced at 80% effort, that wouldn't work well for him.
"Keep the ball rolling." - This sentence is terribly self-evident and banal. Literally millions of runners and coaches know that. You're a Tinman fan, that's fine, and you are hard at work to show it in some threads here on Letsrun. But it's bizarre that you even bring in Kipchoge now to praise Tinman. As if he is the first coach in world history who advises not to exaggerate in training.
idiot alert wrote:
HOOWIE wrote:
Further proof that hard work doesn't guarantee success. Kipchoge is a genetic freak and knows how to leave a little extra in the tank.
Are you saying that Kipchoge doesn´t work his ass off? His training would sent eveyone on LR to hospital after two weeks.
Not in the slightest. I am saying that some of these elite runners can leave a little in the tank. I've seen so many great runners run way too hard in practice leading to injuries that sideline them. Just stating that you shouldn't go to the well too often.
Tinman fan wrote:
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
1) This once again proves that Tinman-oriented training ("keep the ball rolling") is not just the best to get to a decent level, but also very good for elites.
Maybe Tinman is secretly coaching Kipchoge? On some other thread some poster pointed out that Kipchoge was doing critical velocity training .... That really would put Tinman into legendary coaching status.
Maybe the training Tinman and Kipchoge are doing is simple and uncomplicated and nothing legendary?
Daniels has his 7 principles of training and all of those training zones. Its totally ridiculous and complicated and too intense, so most people burn out or get injured or underperform.
My advice:
Learn what Kipchoge does. He's one of the all-time greats and everyone who cares about their own training would do well to learn and understand what he does. Then, just try to apply it o your own training.
If it seems too complicated, it is.
Simple is always complicated enough.
Tinman is 10x better than Patrick Sang
Also, to all those so obsessed with running that they cannot take more than a few days off after racing a marathon, don't do it. It's bad for your body even if you feel up for it.
Kipchoge took a full month off of running after Berlin to let his body recover. He relaxed. He read Books. He hung out with friends and family. This is the best runner in the world right now taking 30 days off.
"... He took a full month off running before beginning training again in late October.
“In the offseason I allow my body to recover, my mind to recover,” he said. “I like to be with my family, to read books, and know what is going on in the world, to understand how people think.”
Jason 32K wrote:
Tinman is 10x better than Patrick Sang
Thanks so much for your sophisticated insight.
Back in the 80s, my HS coach used to tell us to do intervals "as fast as you can easy". Workouts were supposed to end with feeling like you could do more. My logs show this meant a lot of 5k race pace stuff when training for 1600/3200 with some snappy 200s at the end. While Tinman seems to be a good coach, I would not consider his to be some earth shattering philosophy based on my own experience. And my HS coach was influenced largely by Lydiard.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
1) This once again proves that Tinman-oriented training ("keep the ball rolling") is not just the best to get to a decent level, but also very good for elites.
2) You gotta love his modesty. “My preparation has been good. I am fit,” he said. “I think I will have a good result.” Compare that to American runners, like Ritz claiming they gonna win Boston Marathon and then running 2:17 or something. Kipchoge actually got the right to brag, but he is still extremely modest and doesn't underestimate his competition. He knows anything can happen on race day.
Ritz didn't claim he was going to win the Boston Marathon, you intellectually dishonest nob.
Tinman fan wrote:
Maybe Tinman is secretly coaching Kipchoge? On some other thread some poster pointed out that Kipchoge was doing critical velocity training .... That really would put Tinman into legendary coaching status.
+1
this