Breaking: Adam Goucher says he thinks a resolution to the Salazar/NOP doping investigation is "coming very, very soon"

Evan Jogger wrote:

I have no problem with the Gouchers, I like the Gouchers, but I sense bitterness and butthurt from them from being shown the door. They reacted similarly when Wetmore told them to beat it in 2004. They don't respond well to being informed that they're not useful or problematic. It's hard to blame them, really, but it's a big bruise to the ego that becomes a chip on their shoulders that they take public. A lot of people saw from the start that Adam was brought on-board with NOP to be Galen's training escort. Kara was the prize for Salazar, he saw much unrealized potential in her, and Adam was the spare part that came with her.

Actually well stated!

Another minute of fame for them to be back in the headlines in which they miss.

They gave testimony which has to be vetted and not taken as absolute truth as they or Adam proposes. I’m wondering if Kara’s thyroid medication will come into play?

Karl Hungus wrote:

Nothing will ever happen with Salazar/NOP. Even if he got caught with video and photos rubbing t gel into Rupp while injecting him with stuff into his butt, it'll all blow over. With Nike's billions of dollars and sway over ever athletics agency there is, it'll all be for naught.

Yup. USADA has to parse any and all evidence of wrongdoing that exists with the fact that ALL OF IT escaped detection within their antidoping protocols. So while they may be pleased to have caught it all well after the fact, they'll also want to minimize the egg on their collective face regarding the basic lack of efficacy of the thing they spend so many resources on: testing. Same for USATF x1000, which doesn't want to lose any further credibility with the public and congress. The main thing that could come out of it is the Feds finding NOP figures in violation of laws around prescription drugs and assigning light prison sentences, like they did with Marion Jones.

tartarm wrote:

Unfortunately him and Kara have been saying this for about three years now

And letsrun falls for it every time

This. They are trying to remain relevant and nothing else. It's all BS. Kara and Adam crave attention and love to be heard.

I agree, it was good to see follow-ups--this is why phone and in-person interviews are always preferable to email.

Along those lines, it would have been good to ask Goucher about the common, reasonable observation that he and, especially, his wife improved in a program that they say is dirty. It doesn't have to be asked in a confrontational way; he should welcome the opportunity to state his case.

But then if he says they were clean, the special sauce was saved for others, a legitimate follow-up is, If you were able to improve without dodgy practices, why isn't that possible for others?

If you look back to when Adam Goucher was with NOP, he was arguably a much better prospect than Rupp. He actually beat Bob Kennedy at nationals. He won US nationals in the 5 in both 1999 and 2000. He won indoor 3k in 1999 and 2006. He won nationals in xc in college, as well as the 5000m. His pr's are 3:36/3:54/7:34/13:10.

Rupp, recall, wasn't able to break 4 until years later, and wasn't able to close well enough to outkick anyone.

Through 2008, Rupp's pr's were 3:43/4:02/7:49/13:30.

In 2009, he ran 1:50 (Goucher's pr was 1:49) and 3:39, much improved, still 3 seconds off Goucher's best. So, Goucher knew that Salazar was treating him merely as Rupp's training partner and obviously there was something going on between Salazar, Adam, and Kara involving jealousy and competition at the least. But fix Goucher's depression and there was a legitimate sub 13 candidate for you.

2009 3:39.14 Eugene, OR (USA) 30 MAY 2009

2008 3:43.33 Burnaby (CAN) 21 JUN 2008

2005 3:44.39 Cuxhaven (GER) 09 JUL 2005

2004 3:46.68 Lappeenranta (FIN) 25 JUL 2004

2003 3:53.57 Amherst (USA) 06 JUL 2003

OUTDOOR

ONE MILE VIEW GRAPH

PERFORMANCE PLACE DATE

2015 4:00.45 Portland, OR (USA) 08 AUG 2015

2013 3:52.11 London (GBR) 27 JUL 2013

2010 3:57.72 Eugene, OR (USA) 03 JUL 2010

2008 4:03.13 Eugene, OR (USA) 26 APR 2008

OUTDOOR

3000 METRES VIEW GRAPH

PERFORMANCE PLACE DATE

2013 7:46.34 Eugene, OR (USA) 03 MAY 2013

2010 7:43.24 London (GBR) 13 AUG 2010

2008 7:51.17 Carson (USA) 18 MAY 2008

2007 8:01.90 Rieti (ITA) 09 SEP 2007

2006 8:14.20 Eugene, OR (USA) 18 MAR 2006

2005 7:49.16 Lignano (ITA) 17 JUL 2005

2004 8:03.67 Richmond (CAN) 23 JUN 2004

2003 8:10.42 Sherbrooke (CAN) 12 JUL 2003

OUTDOOR

5000 METRES VIEW GRAPH

PERFORMANCE PLACE DATE

2012 12:58.90 Eugene, OR (USA) 02 JUN 2012

2011 13:06.86 Birmingham (GBR) 10 JUL 2011

2010 13:07.35 Zürich (SUI) 19 AUG 2010

2009 13:46.41 Eugene, OR (USA) 29 MAY 2009

2008 13:59.14 Eugene, OR (USA) 27 JUN 2008

2007 13:30.49 Eugene, OR (USA) 20 APR 2007

2006 13:47.04 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 22 JUL 2006

2005 13:44.72 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 23 JUL 2005

2004 13:37.91 Heusden-Zolder (BEL) 31 JUL 2004

2003 14:20.29 Bridgetown (BAR) 18 JUL 2003

2002 14:34.05 Palo Alto, CA (USA) 22 JUN 2002

OUTDOOR

10,000 METRES VIEW GRAPH

PERFORMANCE PLACE DATE

2011 26:48.00 Bruxelles (BEL) 16 SEP 2011

2010 27:10.74 Palo Alto, CA (USA) 01 MAY 2010

2009 27:37.99 Berlin (GER) 17 AUG 2009

2008 27:36.99 Beijing (CHN) 17 AUG 2008

2007 27:33.48 Palo Alto, CA (USA) 29 APR 2007

2006 28:28.18 Melbourne (AUS) 14 DEC 2006

2005 28:15.52 Eugene, OR (USA) 07 MAY 2005

2004 29:09.56 Brasschaat (BEL) 07 AUG 2004

Yet that's not how the fanboy media works. They value access and laughing like pals over genuine insight.

zxcvzxcv wrote:

If you look back to when Adam Goucher was with NOP, he was arguably a much better prospect than Rupp. He actually beat Bob Kennedy at nationals. He won US nationals in the 5 in both 1999 and 2000. He won indoor 3k in 1999 and 2006.

Gouchers went to NOP in 2004, after not making the Olympic team. Both had battled injuries for a while leading up to that. I could see them being viewed as diamonds in the rough who had gotten as far as they could with a coach whose primary focus was a team of college athletes. They had been pro runners training under Wetmore since 1998 and 2001, respectively, and of course prior to that as collegians. Adam did have a nice revival of fortunes soon after that, 2005-2006, and both he and Kara did achieve multiple PRs while with NOP.

rojo wrote:

...

But not everyone feels the way I do. I was talking to another journalist about this a while back and they said, "A ban is a ban. Period." He or she didn't care it was for L-Carniine or EPO. He viewed all bans as the same.

...

Wasn't Al Capone ultimately convicted of tax evasion? Criminals rarely commit a single crime and they go down for the one that can be proven not necessarily the most serious one. We all know that Capone's crimes did not stop with the IRS and if Salazar is busted for L-Carniine injections, there would be no reason to conclude that his crimes end there.

[quote]Frisco Cali Hyphy Nation wrote:

Related to this, doesn't Kara stand to lose her World Championships medal if USADA sanctions Salazar and his team? Adam Goucher was part of NOP too.

It seems insane to me. They want Salazar and Rupp et al. to be convicted/banned so they can be "vindicated", even though they were a part of the program! If that happens, Adam and Kara are just as guilty.

I'm not a fan of Saladbar, but Rupp is just better than Adam, and Kara was probably the best woman ever on NOP. Why can't they just be happy with the success they've had? Don't they realize this middle they are pursuing, where Salazar is guilty but they are not, is untenable? Either Salazar was legally compliant, or the Gouchers were part of a team that doped and should forfeit their results and the WC medal from those years.

+1

Faster doesn't mean better prospect.

At 18 years old, Goucher ran 4:18 and 8:55.

At 24, Adam ran 3:54 / 13:11 / 7:43 which were breakout performances as a professional.

Rupp was pretty much faster and more accomplished than Goucher at every level if you chart their times.

Furthermore, when Adam got AlSal in 2005 ish. He was basically 30 and hadn't come close to being the runner he was in 1999.

Then, he PRed in 2005 running 13:10.

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Wasn't Al Capone ultimately convicted of tax evasion? Criminals rarely commit a single crime

And then there was Hitler.

Portland Hobby Jogger wrote:

The investigation will find minor violations of the "no needles" rule on the L-Carn drips and suspicions that prescription drugs may have been used in an off-label manner...

Just to clarify: The WADA code does not ban off-label use of any substance. This would be an unworkable standard, since which uses are on/off label vary from country to country.

Under the WADA code, the standard for allowing use of a prohibited substances is medical necessity, which is not the same as on/off label. Off-label uses will draw attention, but they are not in themselves prohibited.

Gouchers are pathetic. Get on with your life and quit trying to be relevant when you are not

Well somebody had to bring him in to it. wrote:

3hr-marathoner wrote:

Wasn't Al Capone ultimately convicted of tax evasion? Criminals rarely commit a single crime

And then there was Hitler.

Yeah!!

trackbot! compare adam goucher vs galen rupp

The brojos missed an opportunity in all these buff interviews to ask about Dathan. Maybe they asked and no one answered, or maybe since the team in the book had such little overlap with Dathan, they didnt bother asking. It would be great to get comments from some of these guys on the record. I know some of them wouldn't pull any punches about the L-Carnitine.

I play Flagpole on TV wrote:

rojo wrote:...I was talking to another journalist about this a while back ...

Bwa ha hahaha

Indeed. A journalist would actually do some reporting on the status of the investigation.

At least call Jeffrey Brown or his attorney and ask if they have received notice of an adrv. The new York times reported that last summer.

exactly, bang on wrote:

But no, no one will lose any medals. There may be some stern scolding, and less likely some 3 - 6 months pro forma bans for Ritz and Rupp and Tara and Magness.

If you look at gaps in competiton for Kara, Ritz, Tara, etc., you could make a case that they have already served suspensions following the admission of L-carnitine injections. All went for long stretches with no racing on the schedule, albeit without public explanation of suspension time served.

The NOP investigation hasn't played out how I think anyone anticipated. It hasn't sprung the steroid or EPO domino effect of confessions and clear evidence implicating wrongdoing. The Gouchers are unique whistleblowers in sport--claiming they saw some fairly ill-defined wrongdoing, but not participating in any wrongdoing themselves. I can't think of any notable whistleblowers who didn't actively participate in the wrongdoing and I think that's part of what makes me skeptical.

The investigation also points out how opaque the sport of track and field is. I can believe that NOP operates in the gray area and may even cross the line, from time to time. But I have a hard time believing that other pro groups, specifically, the other well-funded Nike group, Bowerman TC, aren't doing the same things. And we have no way of knowing whether or not that is true aside from rumors and quite frankly, how likeable the athletes and coaches in that group.