Ackley wrote:
Three of Villanova's scorers are from the Philadelphia suburbs. I wonder how many other teams had that many scorers who grew up within commuting distance of the college.
(The other two scorers are foreigners though.)
- Admirable
- You'll see that common amongst most non-altitude cross-country teams. They take on a few foreigners to remain competitive. The NOVA-Ireland connection has a long history.
Don't forget to take out runners that ran in the 4%
I don't think the OP fully buys into his own garbage himself, but either way, he's a total tool and would rank high on the ANTI-AMERICAN poster rankings list.
and Grant Fisher ain't American born. Get him off your list. The constitutional definition of "Natural-born" citizen meant that your FATHER was an American citizen, .....we don't none of this Neo-Lib definition of "Natural-Born" that you seem to be using.
vivalarepublica wrote:
Lickety Split wrote:
- I gave theme the benefit of the doubt .... pretty confident w/Rodriguez & Lomong
- The other "Take-Away" from this meet is that Isai Rodriguez should consider going PRO immediately ... similar to Evan Jager & Drew Hunter. My research DOES NOT reflect a "Real American" NCAA XC performance comparable since Bob Kennedy's victory. This was Sydney McLaughlin-like!!!
You don't get a decent pro contract for 4th place at NCAA XC. Rodriguez was good all season, but it was one race he has not yet duplicated.
Now if the kid puts up some good times in track, he might be worth another look. It's clear based on his performance yesterday that he is aboslutely oozing with talent and we are only seeing the start of it, if he stays focused and healthy.
- This performance demonstrates he has either "Way More" or at best "Even" w/Jager & Hunter at their age who INDEED received long-term & well-paying contracts.
alshaw wrote:
Why are you putting A/mission next to the BYU guys who didn’t go on one?
Also do you all really think BYU was better this year because of LDS missions? You think Mantz wouldn’t be better now had he not taken 2 years off? And Linkletter and McMillan didn’t serve missions... also they would have Casey Clinger right now if it weren’t for missions so... ya’ll just sound salty.
- BYU is the NCAA equivalent to WCAP. Coach Eyestone works the sequencing which includes both a 2-year Mission & a Red-Shirt year. Couple Age/Maturity with Altitude & Aversion to non-distance running & you have your formula for success. Let's not forget, Eyestone is a helluva coach as well.
- No, Mantz wouldn't be better .... I don't buy that the BYU athletes don't maintain training during their mission year.
- I'm to understand they often train in Cascade, Idaho.
Flying Faster wrote:
Are you sure about:
(32) Kieran Tuntivate Harvard (IND)
Kieran is half American through his mother and half Thai through his father. He holds both US and Thai citizenship. Kieran recently represented Thailand in the Asian Games 10000m run this past August where he finished fourth in a time of 30:29.04
- Great catch!
- Another Alexi Pappas!
Your A Total Moron wrote:
Lickety Split wrote:
I further announce "Lickety's All-Americans" as reflected below. Props to those who don't train at altitude (A), didn't go on a Mission, & were individual (IND) versus team performers. 35% of the "Real Americans" that attended a college at altitude made "Lickety's All-American" Team .... a data point for future HS athletes & current programs that "Location Matters!" By that I mean, teams at elevation have a better opportunity focusing on middle/long-distance runners & perhaps add a few field eventers like decathlon to compete better in Cross-Country-Indoor-Outdoor hat-trick. I "buckled" by including BYU athletes in this mix ... huge advantage w/age & altitude: their top 5 made "Lickety's All-American" Team.
(1) Grant Fisher .... Stanford
(2) Isai Rodriguez ... OK State
(3) Aaron Templeton ... Furman (IND)
(4) Tyler Day ... NAU (A)
(5) Joe Klecker ... Colorado (A)
(6) John Dressel ... Colorado (A)
(7) Connor Mantz ... BYU (A)/Mission
(8) Ryan Forsyth ... Colorado (A)
(9) Alex Ostberg ... Stanford
(10) Peter Seufer ... Va Tech (IND)
(11) Tanner Anderson ...Washington
(12) Paul Roberts ... Wyoming (A)
(13) Rory Linkletter ... BYU (A)/Mission
(14) Luis Grijalva ... NAU (A)
(15) Connor McMillan ... BYU (A)/Mission
(16) Logan Orndof ... Portland
(17) Ashenafi Hatte ... OK State
(18) Addison Dehaven ... Boise State (A)*
(19) Peter Lomong ... NAU (A)
(20) Alek Parsons ... Stanford
(21) Brad Demarest ... Virginia (IND)
(22) Danny Kilrea ... Notre Dame (IND)
(23) Clayson Shumway ... BYU (A)/Mission
(24) John Aho ... Michigan
(25) Waleed Suliman ... Ole Miss
(26) Thibebu Procter ... Washington
(27) Nick Hauger … Portland
(28) Carson Hume …. Colorado State (A)
(29) Eduardo Herrera … Colorado (A)
(30) Riley Campbell … Boise State (A)*
(31) Andrew Jordan … Iowa State
(32) Kieran Tuntivate … Harvard (IND)
(33) Kyle Mau …. Indiana
(34) Jacob Hesslington … BYU (A)/Mission
(35) Aidan Reed …. Southern Utah (A)
(36) Kyle Mattes … Illinois State (IND)
(37) NICK WAREHAM … Georgetown
(38) Ian Shanklin … NC State
(39) Olin Hacker … Wisconsin
(40) Fred Huxman … Washington
* NOTE: Assumed Boise State athletes had the opportunity for significant altitude training.
Mantz is 22 and would be a red shirt jr, had he not served a mission. Graduated HS in 2015
Linkletter and McMillan didnt even serve missions. Both graduated HS in 2014 and are red shirt seniors
Shumway served an LDS mission and graduated in 2014--Would be a red shirt Sr.
Heslington and McLellend graduated in 2013 and by your ridiculous claim, would be "age cheats"
Young graduated in 2012 and would likewise be an "age cheat"
Lets now look at what BYU would be if the Mission was not a thing.
#1 Mantz -JR- 10th @ 2018 NCAA championships
#2 LInkletter- Sr- 22nd at 2018 NCAA championships
#3 Casey Clinger- So-24th at 2017 NCAA championships (Serving a mission currently)
#4 Connor McMillan-Sr- 24th at 2018 NCAA Championships
#5 Clayson Shumway- Sr- 32nd at 2018 NCAA Championships
#6 Aidan Troutner- Fr- 2017 NXN Champion (Serving a mission currently)
#7 Throw in any other guy that would still have eligibility if they didnt serve a mission and didnt race nationals but would have on any other team in the country (Jacklin, Garnica, Otteson, Weaver, MaKay Johns(on mission right now).
How do you think BYU would have done yesterday is you take this into consideration? well lets see..
-Tyler Day 6th (NAU)
-Conner Mantz 10th (BYU)
-Matthew Baxter 15th (NAU)
-Rory Linkletter 22nd (BYU)
-Luis Grijalva 23rd (NAU)
-Casey Clinger 24th (BYU)--if he didnt make a single improvement from last year, which is unlikely.
-Connor McMillan 25th) (BYU)
-Blaise Ferro 27th (NAU)
-Peter Lomong 30th (NAU)
-Clayson Shumway 33nd (BYU)
NAU 101
BYU 114
(Scores are rough and not taking out individuals)
It looks like the race could have been a lot closer if it wasn't for the "age cheating BYU athletes." Something also to consider is that NAU's 7th man will be going on a two year LDS mission next year and they currently have another runner (Joe Benson) who is on a mission. So are they also age cheats? Do you homework before you come out and accuse.
On another note, runners of the BYU cross country team do not go on missions have an advantage to run PERIOD. They go out to serve Jesus Christ, by helping others come closer to Him. Do you think that would be easy? Do you think it would be easy to leave your family and friends for two years, with only weekly email communication ? Do you think it would be easy learning a new language and living in a foreign land? Do you think it would be easy saving up the money to go serve a mission like this, pushing off your future plans? Do you think it would be easy having people yell at you, in some places beat you up, and because you were just trying to help them? It is extremely difficult to serve a mission. It is also very difficult to go without running for two years and then to just jump into a college caliber of training--something you may not have ever done before, and especially at BYU.
I know you think that you KNOW this is an unfair advantage for BYU and you could continue to think this for all i care, but i have seen countless runners come back from missions, and never be able to ever get back to their JR times in high school. Remember a guy by the name of Brad Nye , for example? That guy ran 403 in HS and after coming back from a mission could never break 410 again.
Besides that point of BYU, i also see a larger issue and that is that you think that you can just throw out the "non-american" runners like they don't count. Was this suppose to be racially inspired? Do you really think that because someone was born in New Zealand, Canada, or Eastern Africa that they all of a sudden dont count? Like they haven't put in the work to compete? Like they aren't as human as an american? These people come to America so they can have a better life and have opportunity to get a quality education, while getting it paid for by working at something they love. It is people like you why we have problems in this country. You seriously need to think before you post something like this.
- Thank you for confirming my points on the following:
* Mantz & Shumway are 22 & is really being a red shirt jr
* I assume Coach Eyestone didn't execute the 2-year mission option on Linkletter and McMillan because he thought he could take down NAU.
- The "2-Year LDS" exemption is a SCAM ... I disagree w/your apologetic perspective.
- NAU: yes, they are "age cheats" as well if they're executing an LDS mission.
- Non-American Runners: you are incorrect wrt racial inspiration ... my position is based upon being a citizen, taxpayer, & that it's called the "National" Collegiate Conference Association (NCAA) not the International CCA (ICAA). These events look more & more like World University Games ... but w/Green Cards.
Lickety Split wrote:
- I'm to understand they often train in Cascade, Idaho.
It's not just the training at the altitude. You have to be at that altitude 24/7. This precisely why those "altitude tents" don't work.
hey MORAN, it's called 'National' Collegiate Conference because the SCHOOLS are national, not the students.
In fact, the studen body is far more international than than the athletic department, it could be argued that international athletes are UNDER represented in NCAA sports.
Much like xenophobic MORANS are over-represented on these boards
ZERO FACTS
Lickety Split wrote:- No, Mantz wouldn't be better .... I don't buy that the BYU athletes don't maintain training during their mission year.Unfortunately you are incorrect on this. BYU athletes in ANY sport are not able to train for their sport while they are on a two year LDS Mission. It is very well documented. Do your research. Google & Bing are your friends. Don't be afraid.
Great work, 9/10. Got liberals and conservatives alike fired up on this one, not an easy thing to do!
Boise Ain't High Enough, and neither is Cascade wrote:
Lickety Split wrote:
- I'm to understand they often train in Cascade, Idaho.
It's not just the training at the altitude. You have to be at that altitude 24/7. This precisely why those "altitude tents" don't work.
Make sure to let Rupp know about this after his next Top 5 finish at a major.
Lickety Split wrote:
vivalarepublica wrote:
You don't get a decent pro contract for 4th place at NCAA XC. Rodriguez was good all season, but it was one race he has not yet duplicated.
Now if the kid puts up some good times in track, he might be worth another look. It's clear based on his performance yesterday that he is aboslutely oozing with talent and we are only seeing the start of it, if he stays focused and healthy.
- This performance demonstrates he has either "Way More" or at best "Even" w/Jager & Hunter at their age who INDEED received long-term & well-paying contracts.
False equivalency. Drew Hunter is a top 3 all time high school miler. Evan Jager most likely would not have obtained a pro contract if Schumacher did not leave Wisco for Nike.
Rodriguez has more to prove. But getting 4th at your first national meet in any season is one heck of a way to start.
vivalarepublica wrote:
Boise Ain't High Enough, and neither is Cascade wrote:
It's not just the training at the altitude. You have to be at that altitude 24/7. This precisely why those "altitude tents" don't work.
Make sure to let Rupp know about this after his next Top 5 finish at a major.
That's why he is Top 5 and not a Champion.
Lickety Split wrote:
ZERO FACTS
your kind seems to be immune to facts, so why waste them?
vivalarepublica wrote:
Lickety Split wrote:
- This performance demonstrates he has either "Way More" or at best "Even" w/Jager & Hunter at their age who INDEED received long-term & well-paying contracts.
False equivalency. Drew Hunter is a top 3 all time high school miler. Evan Jager most likely would not have obtained a pro contract if Schumacher did not leave Wisco for Nike.
Rodriguez has more to prove. But getting 4th at your first national meet in any season is one heck of a way to start.
- I agree that the #2 American at the NCAA as a Freshmen IS NOT equivalent to Drew Hunter's HS performance ... IT EXCEEDS IT.
- Rodriguez should take note of what happened to German at OK State & cash-in ... soonest.
Lickety Split wrote:
Flying Faster wrote:
Are you sure about:
(32) Kieran Tuntivate Harvard (IND)
Kieran is half American through his mother and half Thai through his father. He holds both US and Thai citizenship. Kieran recently represented Thailand in the Asian Games 10000m run this past August where he finished fourth in a time of 30:29.04
- Great catch!
- Another Alexi Pappas!
Presenting Lickety's "Newest" XC All-American ... great job!
(40) YARED NUGUSE .... Notre Dame
For you HS Seniors out there .... this is really how you have to look at the programs results this year:
1) Altitude/Mountain Teams ..... pretty much "Rocky Mountain High!"
1 Northern Arizona
2 BYU
3 Colorado
9 Colorado St.
10 Boise State
12 Wyoming
20 Air Force
21 Southern Utah
2) AMORICA'S TEAMS: Those that will never win again, but have great academics.
5 Stanford
6 Washington
11 North Carolina St.
14 Notre Dame
18 Indiana
22 Princeton
24 Bradley
29 Purdue
3) TOKEN FOREIGNERS REQUIRED: Those that will win again, but require ANZAC or the "Rift Valley Express" reinforcements.
3 Portland
7 Iowa State
8 Wisconsin
13 Oklahoma State
26 Syracuse
4) ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN! The Balanced T&F/XC Programs = Limited Scholarships!
15 Oregon
19 Michigan
25 Arkansas
27 Texas
31 Florida State
5) The GLOBALISTS! Your probably "walking on"!
16 Eastern Kentucky
17 Ole Miss
23 Villanova
28 Iona
30 Tulsa