Guardian article on Ethiopian Training Philosophy

Whatley wrote:

Everybody cheats so it's still a level playing ground. If nobody ever cheated the Ethiopians would still rule.

What is really going on here is an over abundance of little men***** who like to run long distances.

****** how many full grown Americans weigh 125 pounds?

Sand Dunes wrote:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/aug/04/doping-hotspot-ethiopia-drug-testing-epo

Please don't use actual facts and overwhelming evidence to argue with El K it just encourages him.

3, 2, 1...blastoff wrote:

lklkj wrote:

You guys think EPO is a magic elixir.

Why don't you get on it, and get back to us when you make the Trials.

Oh, right, it won't happen, because EPO is as close to a placebo as 4% is to 4% improvement.

Yeah...right, elite runners have been using rocket fuel for the better part of 3 decades now. ?

But it is the magic elixir ?

So America is the richest country in the world, and our runners have the most resources available with the most expendable income. Are we safe to assume close to 100% of our runners use EPO, like our cyclists, because we can afford this expensive drug which is so easy to obtain?

BTW, it's great watching Sammy in these races. He ran like he was indestructible because he cocktail was out of this world. I don't hold it against him one bit, love his racing style. The Lance Armstrong in terms of attitude to racing.

thank you. interesting article.

lklkj wrote:

You guys think EPO is a magic elixir.

Why don't you get on it, and get back to us when you make the Trials.

Oh, right, it won't happen, because EPO is as close to a placebo as 4% is to 4% improvement.

Thank you. It's a shame that this thread has to be about doping when it's supposed to be about Ethiopian running.

And yes EPO is a placebo but Americans need an excuse don't they?

here we go again wrote:

lklkj wrote:

You guys think EPO is a magic elixir.

Why don't you get on it, and get back to us when you make the Trials.

Oh, right, it won't happen, because EPO is as close to a placebo as 4% is to 4% improvement.

Thank you. It's a shame that this thread has to be about doping when it's supposed to be about Ethiopian running.

And yes EPO is a placebo but Americans need an excuse don't they?

If it's just a placebo, why is it a banned substance?

Sand Dunes wrote:

here we go again wrote:

Thank you. It's a shame that this thread has to be about doping when it's supposed to be about Ethiopian running.

And yes EPO is a placebo but Americans need an excuse don't they?

If it's just a placebo, why is it a banned substance?

Hi racist!

546547io wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

If it's just a placebo, why is it a banned substance?

Hi racist!

First, I'm not a racist.

Second, not a argument.

Sand Dunes wrote:

here we go again wrote:

Thank you. It's a shame that this thread has to be about doping when it's supposed to be about Ethiopian running.

And yes EPO is a placebo but Americans need an excuse don't they?

If it's just a placebo, why is it a banned substance?

Good question. It's definitely not a placebo for people who actually need it. But if your blood count is normal, it is not a performance enhancer.

Sand Dunes wrote:

546547io wrote:

Hi racist!

First, I'm not a racist.

Second, not a argument.

First, maybe you are not racist, but you are anti-Africans.

Second, this thread is not about EPO.

Third, get the fvck out with your venom and let us enjoy and discuss the article the OP kindly shared with us.

here we go again wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

If it's just a placebo, why is it a banned substance?

Good question. It's definitely not a placebo for people who actually need it. But if your blood count is normal, it is not a performance enhancer.

Awesome, so when are we going to reinstate Lance Armstrong seven Tour Dr France wins?

67u6uy wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

First, I'm not a racist.

Second, not a argument.

First, maybe you are not racist, but you are anti-Africans.

Second, this thread is not about EPO.

Third, get the fvck out with your venom and let us enjoy and discuss the article the OP kindly shared with us.

Truth is treason in the empire of lies.

Sand Dunes wrote:

here we go again wrote:

Good question. It's definitely not a placebo for people who actually need it. But if your blood count is normal, it is not a performance enhancer.

Awesome, so when are we going to reinstate Lance Armstrong seven Tour Dr France wins?

Hopefully some time in the next few years. Especially when the general public realise that his power outputs were in the normal range.

here we go again wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

If it's just a placebo, why is it a banned substance?

Good question. It's definitely not a placebo for people who actually need it. But if your blood count is normal, it is not a performance enhancer.

But what is normal for an endurance athlete vs a "regular Joe/Jane" are two different things. Mayo shows "38.8 to 50%" for men and "34.9 to 44.5%" for women. Other medical sites show even different ranges. I bet there's a fair number of athletes that go below 38 as a baseline (Armstrong reportedly had a base of ~38).

El Keniano wrote:

Ethiopia has very little foreign influence and few foreign coaches. Try again.

There have been a number of foreign influencers popping up in recent years, unfortunately. One bright spot was the banning of Jama Aden from entering the country.

Red Cell Rick wrote:

here we go again wrote:

Good question. It's definitely not a placebo for people who actually need it. But if your blood count is normal, it is not a performance enhancer.

But what is normal for an endurance athlete vs a "regular Joe/Jane" are two different things. Mayo shows "38.8 to 50%" for men and "34.9 to 44.5%" for women. Other medical sites show even different ranges. I bet there's a fair number of athletes that go below 38 as a baseline (Armstrong reportedly had a base of ~38).

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/hematocrit/about/pac-20384728

Normal blood counts depend on genetics and plasma volume. Most people fall within a small margin genetically with a few slight outlier and some really big outliers. However this has nothing to do with their endurance capability, but because the science has been dumbed down to idiot level, the conventional wisdom is that more red blood cells = more oxygen delivery.

Plasma volume increase from endurance training (or even walking long distances) reduces the percentage of red blood cells, but not the volume of red blood cells, because the total blood volume has gone up.

All of this information should be general knowledge, it's pretty basic stuff.

here we go again wrote:

Sand Dunes wrote:

Awesome, so when are we going to reinstate Lance Armstrong seven Tour Dr France wins?

Hopefully some time in the next few years. Especially when the general public realise that his power outputs were in the normal range.

Yeah...Jon Orange, we know EPO doesn't work, nor has it ever worked with athletes. Lol (are you going to publish a paper on this anytime soon and submit it to WADA?).

Also keep in mind that Pharmstrong broke the rules not only taking EPO & doing blood doping but HGH & T, both prohibited substances. Rules are the rules....?

Whatley wrote:

Everybody cheats so it's still a level playing ground. ...

This is just not true. You have high responders and low responders to peds, it can easily reorder the podium. Second, if everyone is cheating then it matters that the referees (in this case anti doping officials) are not present or are actively in collusion with the athletes in certain parts of the world. The level of cheating in the absence of referees just goes up.

The standard steps of rationalization, you have reached step 4.

1. There is no doping

2. Only a few sub elites dope

3. OK, there is doping but it doesn't work so it doesn't matter

4. Everyone dopes, so it is a level playing field.