Yes, he is probably the GOAT, but show some diversity. Run a hilly course, or at least one without pacers. Pacers are BS.
Yes, he is probably the GOAT, but show some diversity. Run a hilly course, or at least one without pacers. Pacers are BS.
vivalarepublica wrote:
We know Kipchoge is unbeatable in these paced marathon parades. He only has won one unpaced marathon, the Rio Olympic marathon, which had watered-down competition.
It's high time that he pays a visit to New York this fall and wins a real marathon rather than these glorified parades. Get on it, NYRR.
Pfffffffft. No. Just no. Give me a break.
E-Pain wrote:
Yes, he'll still be the greatest regardless, but enough with these Mickey Mouse courses like London and Berlin.
A convincing win against a stacked field in Boston or NY would put him even a notch higher in the pantheon of great marathoners, more than chasing seconds year after year just for the sake of a WR.
There are no "stacked fields" in NY or Boston.
Kipchoge is ok but if he really thinks he's all that then he certainly should attempt NY or Boston. Try and win a RACE in one of the major marathons. I didn't watch London and I don't care for it. It's just a 2nd rate circus show.
Now way Kipchoge does a Boston or New York. He is too puzzy to try. He would be exposed rather quickly.
"Stacked fields" in NY or Boston?
This thread must be a joke, right?
thisisajoke wrote:
"Stacked fields" in NY or Boston?
This thread must be a joke, right?
Hahaha. London only had Kipchoge that was good. The 2nd best runner was Kitata. That should tell you everything
I should have clarified "if" Boston/NY were able to assemble a stacked field, not that he should run them because their fields are stacked.
As last Monday showed, Boston can turn elite runners into mortals.
E-Pain wrote:
As last Monday showed, Boston can turn elite runners into mortals.
So can every marathon you dipsh*t.
New York and Boston are by no means as stacked as London was. They may be harder courses to run but London had and army of guys with PRs of 2:05 or below. Boston and NY attract a lot of stellar athletes but the PRs in this field blow those two away
The fact that a 40 year old Meb and an amateur from Japan can win Boston is a testament to the fact that Boston is on par to a local road race. Kipchoge has bigger fish to fry than beat the local elite scene. I know in America we want to make it out to be a competitive marathon... but it's just not.
vivalarepublica wrote:
We know Kipchoge is unbeatable in these paced marathon parades. He only has won one unpaced marathon, the Rio Olympic marathon, which had watered-down competition.
It's high time that he pays a visit to New York this fall and wins a real marathon rather than these glorified parades. Get on it, NYRR.
He’s already secured his legacy at GOAT but I agree he should check NYC and Boston off the list.
I’d also like to see him attempt a double such as Chicago + NYC or Boston + London in the same year. That would be epic.
The fact that Yuki can win a Boston and defeat the best Africa has to offer is a testament that London is a joke that only certain fanboys like to jerk off to
Boston and New York are basically for slow Americans.
They're the hobby jogger of top class events.
Boston & NY ends up being for Americans because the Africans can't even finish a real marathon. Marathons should not be aided, and they should not be on a perfectly flat road. If you want that go run a flat , aided "marathon" might as well go on a track. The times these Africans are running in London/Berlin don't count.
What’s with this either/or thinking about whether only American WMM OR only non-American WMMs are great races? They all are!
Now, that’s not to say that the elite fields aren’t better in one race or another in any given year, or that there isn’t a prestige pecking order (for what it’s worth, I think it’s London, New York, Boston/Berlin tie, Chicago, Tokyo although that isn’t set in stone), but they are ALL prestigious events (the six most prestigious road races in he world) and every one of them is great.
And what’s with this either/or thinking that only a paced WR (or near-WR) effort on a flat, fast course in perfect conditions OR only a win in an unpaced race on a challenging course in tough conditions against a strong, deep field proves that someone is a great marathoner? They both do!
Of course, a truly great marathoner would be able to win both (or any other) types of race consistently, which is why I want to see Kipchoge set the WR at Berlin this fall and then set his sites on becoming the first marathoner to win every WMM at least once. But even without a large number of unpaced wins in tough conditions (although his Olympic gold
medal is a good start to his CV for races in those conditions) or the official WR, I think it’s pretty clear that Kipchoge is clearly the greatest marathoner of all-time. But that doesn’t mean his already impressive credentials couldn’t be improved by diversifying the types of races he has won.
El Keniano wrote:
vivalarepublica wrote:
We know Kipchoge is unbeatable in these paced marathon parades. He only has won one unpaced marathon, the Rio Olympic marathon, which had watered-down competition.
It's high time that he pays a visit to New York this fall and wins a real marathon rather than these glorified parades. Get on it, NYRR.
Just no. Boston, especially, is slipping in the prestige stakes. I say attack the WR in Berlin and hope for good weather.
I agree. If I were from the Eastern Hemisphere, I'd stay as far away from American races as possible. Not just American marathons, but American races of any kind. It's either 88 degrees and full sun & no wind, or it's 33 degrees, cloudy, precipitating & windy AF...and he'd have to contend with jet lag, potentially. No thank you. Not because Kipchoge couldn't do it, but because it wouldn't be as fun as running anywhere else.
Kipchoge has nothing else to prove, as far as I'm concerned. He won fast races, he won THE un-paced race of all un-paced marathons (the Olympics), he won hot-weather races, he won fair-weather races, he won races with pacing problems, he won a race with shoe-problems, he won a race in inclement weather, etc. etc. I know he doesn't have the WR, but with all those other accolades & consistently racing the competition, not having the WR is more of a function of weather unpredictability than his inability. As far as I'm concerned, his last 5 non-Olympic marathons were WR attempts for the effort provided & time achieved in various conditions. How many more times should he attempt the WR before he just says, "F--- it, the weather sucks, I'm effectively the WR-holder at this point anyway."
...and I say all this as a Bekele fan. Kipchoge is the marathon GOAT. If anyone (Bekele or otherwise) wants the title, they have to de-throne Eliud Kipchoge during his 'prime' or string together the same times or the same accomplishments (placings & medals).
sbeefyk2 wrote:
The fact that a 40 year old Meb and an amateur from Japan can win Boston is a testament to the fact that Boston is on par to a local road race. Kipchoge has bigger fish to fry than beat the local elite scene. I know in America we want to make it out to be a competitive marathon... but it's just not.
lol no
If Kipchoge ran Boston he would have been 2:17 or DNF. Boston is legit. Weaksauce East Africans can't handle the hills or lack of pacers. They need to pampered.
I agree with most of this, especially the last paragraph.
I've run all of the majors except Tokyo, and there's no such thing as an easy marathon, they all hurt like hell. If it's a flat course, maybe you push a little harder. If hilly, maybe you hold back a bit, but then the hills are murder - hell, in Boston even the downhills hurt. But at the end, it feels pretty much the same, like death.
That said, it does seem to me that the flat courses (London, Berlin, Chicago) are kinda like track events, especially when there are pacers. They are very different animals from the hilly terrains of Boston and New York. And it's not that often that a runner can win on both,
Wilson Kipsang has won on both, has held the WR, and going into London 2018, I would have said that there was some argument that he was the marathon GOAT, because of his versatility. Well, it's kinda tough to argue that now, after Kipchoge's effort today. He had the balls to go after the WR, even though it was way too warm a day. And when that didn't happen, he still had the grit to avoid cracking, and beat arguably the best field ever assembled. He has won too often, in all kinds of weather, against the best of the best.
Still, if he can set the WR in Berlin this fall, it would be nice to see him win in Boston or (more likely) NY in 2019. Because while he may be the GOAT right now, if he were to show more versatility, it might make him the GOAT for a very long time to come. Because one day some talented young stud is going to come along and win a ton of majors, on flat and hilly courses, and if Kipchoge stays with London and Berlin, he's gonna lose that best-ever status sooner than maybe he should.
Phantasy Star wrote:
sbeefyk2 wrote:
The fact that a 40 year old Meb and an amateur from Japan can win Boston is a testament to the fact that Boston is on par to a local road race. Kipchoge has bigger fish to fry than beat the local elite scene. I know in America we want to make it out to be a competitive marathon... but it's just not.
lol no
If Kipchoge ran Boston he would have been 2:17 or DNF. Boston is legit. Weaksauce East Africans can't handle the hills or lack of pacers. They need to pampered.
East Africans win Boston almost every year. If they don't win, they're at minimum on the podium.