How come most elite runners wear shoes with 10mm drop?

Quenton Cassidyyy wrote:

[quote]epicTCK wrote:

dude on my team runs 4:30 /2:06 and wears altras.

But everyone ran a 4:30 mile in high school[/quot

We're talking training paces, not weak PRs.

A few people on here would benefit from running with a footpod for a while to see that they are talking rubbish.

I've run the past few days in Lunaracers. I think they have an 8mm drop. For years I've been in 4mm shoes.

My heels are not just hitting first, they're actually scuffing the ground before I land, somewhat flat-footed. It's very odd. I can't run now how I want, or I'm too "on my toes," and I can't heel strike, because that feels weird. I think I'll start mowing the lawn or something in the Lunaracers. Anyone need a size 12, barely any miles on them?

op here wrote:

That's not what I'm saying. I want to do marathons and run them well. I usually run in hoka cliftons and kinvaras, but when I look at people who are GREAT at marathons they seem to run in 10mm drop shoes.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread that you don't see people winning marathons in Altras. I've also thought about this, online people rave about Altras, but if they're so great why is no one elite wearing them?

I'm wondering if there is something I'm missing. Would a 10mm shoe help calf strain over a marathon? I get it that everyone is different, but I don't see anyone wearing high mm shoes.

The runners that are running in 10 mm heel rise shoes that you see are Nike runners who train in Structures (Rupp), Pegasus, Vomeros, etc that have 10 mm heel rise - or Adidas runners who train in Supernovas, Tempos, Ultra Boosts, Bostons that also have 10 mm heel rises. They are most use to that, and would be more likely to have calf/Achilles/foot/efficiency issues if they switched to something with lower offset for such a long race. It's what their bodies are use to and adapted to, simple as that.

If you are running in Cliftons and Kinvaras for training, that's what you're use to and they are great for you, you don't need the additional heel rise that people who train in 10 mm heel rise shoes do. However, if you sometimes do have calf issues, since you mention calf strain, maybe you aren't fully used to 4-5 mm heel rise, and could maybe benefit from something higher, assuming you can run smoothly and comfortably in them.

No shoe will magically make you faster. What's most important is that they fit well and that you're comfortable running in them. I've unconsciously changed to shoes with different drops/characteristics without realising it. For a long time I ran exclusively in Kivaras, had a pair of Virratas (0 drop), and had 2 pairs of Brooks pure connect. Since slamming my right achilles tendon into my bike's chainring, I've been running in Adidas Boston 6s (10mm) and Salomon S Lab Sense (4mm) trail shoes. My landing pattern is still the same no matter the shoe (midfoot, slight heel strike).

FFF wrote:

I've run the past few days in Lunaracers. I think they have an 8mm drop. For years I've been in 4mm shoes.

My heels are not just hitting first, they're actually scuffing the ground before I land, somewhat flat-footed. It's very odd. I can't run now how I want, or I'm too "on my toes," and I can't heel strike, because that feels weird. I think I'll start mowing the lawn or something in the Lunaracers. Anyone need a size 12, barely any miles on them?

Ironically I was in 4mm drop for a few yrs and kept having hamstring issues. Went to an old pair of Lunaracers and my hammy issue went away within days!

I use hoka for trail and adidas Boston 6 for road.. able to bounce between them with no problems whatsoever

I think the controversy in this thread is mostly due to various logical fallacies.

Studies show that as most runners tire, they tend to heel strike more. The 10mm heel allows these runners to run farther without tiring as much. That's probably why the Nike 4% has a 10mm drop. That's why, until about 10 years ago, almost all running shoes had a 10-12mm drop.

However, the 10mm drop creates potential problems: PF, runners knee, etc.

For some of us, these problems can be alleviated by changing to forefoot (or very light heel) strike and a low drop shoe. For us, once we adapted to running in a 0-4mm drop shoe, a 10mm drop feels uncomfortable.

Just because someone else can switch from 0 to 10mm shoes without problems doesn't mean everyone can switch without problems.

Example: In 2002, I switched to forefoot strike from a severe heel striker due to severe knee problems. In 2008, I switched to a low drop shoe (Kinvara). Fortunately, other manufacturers caught on and added more padding to the forefoot so the low drop shoe would work for recreational runners. Now, every brand, I think, has a low drop shoe in their lineup.

I've never run in a 10mm drop shoe since. I've tried them on, but they feel like they're forcing me to heel strike. I'm sure others can do it, but I can't.

Ironically I was in 4mm drop for a few yrs and kept having hamstring issues. Went to an old pair of Lunaracers and my hammy issue went away within days![/quote]

Ha I had the same experience after switching from ASICS Hyperspeeds to Adidas (Boston and Adios). Not instant relief like yours but gradual resolution.

I imagine that most elites just wear whatever their sponsors give them and is comfortable and don't think about it too much. Not every runner is a big shoe nerd that obsesses about drop.

I currently have shoes ranging from 0mm to 12mm drop. It's a mixed bag.

The zero drop shoes definitely put more strain on anything below the knee and force me run more on my toes. I feel this pretty strongly with anything in the 0mm-4mm range. But I do like the thicker forefoot cushioning and lack of arch/medial support structures. The lower drop shoes are often less structured. more flexible, and thicker up front, so they can make for some smooth running.

I still can run on my forefoot with the traditional higher drop shoes like 10mm and 12mm, but it definitely feels less forced than the low drop shoes. I do like to run in higher drop shoes to take some strain off my calves and achilles. After running in some lower drop shoes, the large, thicker heel does seem to get in the way of a smooth, unhindered foot motion. But my biggest complaint with higher drop shoes is thin forefoots, which causes more pain the longer I go.

I also have some 8mm drop shoes and this might be the highest drop I will buy going forward. The drop is not low enough to cause the lower leg pain of low drop shoes and they often still have enough forefoot cushion to absorb the impacts during longer runs. 6mm-8mm might be the sweet spot for me.

Over the past few months, this is my shoe breakdown:

Long runs (roads and trails): Brooks Adrenaline GTS (12mm), Saucony Freedom ISO (4mm), Inov-8 (8mm)

Faster runs and workouts: Saucony Freedom ISO, Adidas Boston 6 (10mm), Mizuno Wave Sayanora 4 (10mm)

Moderate and easy runs: Altra Instinct 4.0 (0mm), Asics GT-1000 (10mm), Adidas Pureboost DPR (8mm)

Racing (short to long races): Mizuno Wave Ekiden (5mm), Saucony Fastwitch 8 (4mm), Adidas Boston 6 (10mm).

After all this experimentation with different shoe drops, I feel like zero drop is gimmicky and too aggressive for training. Are there benefits to lower drop shoes that are not available with higher drop shoes? Yes. But is zero drop needed to realize those benefits? Probably not. It's good to have at leasst some heel in the shoe.

And the nice thing about the lower drop shoes is they can offer more midfoot and forefoot cushioning at a lower weight compared to higher drop shoes. For a higher drop shoe to offer the same level of cushioning up front, it usually requires an increase in weight (think most Brooks) and lighter foams with questionable durability.

Bullshi@

You are misleading people. No such thing as heelstriker naturally or forefoot strike naturally. According to your logic some heelstrike naturally and some forefoot strike naturally and one should not intervene with that. Such crap!

Your foot strike is a product of habit. Your form is a product of habit. The way you hold a pencil is habit. Wether you smoke or not- habit. How much and what you eat- habit. Habits can change very fast and the new habit becomes what you call “naturally”

Heel drop will change your footstrike pattern. If your foot would do what it takes to land on your habitual footstrike, no matter how big or small is the drop. Why many elites use 10mm drop- I don’t know, but it’s not because that’s what they are used to!

Kipchoge/bekele/Rupp/ and most long distance were track runners many years- that means spikes- zero drop. So no- it’s not because they are used to 10mm drop.

Maybe with bigger drop your foot while on the ground is less dorsiflexed and that puts less stress on the calf and the Achilles and better for those longer than 10k distance- but I’m not sure

Hgfghh wrote:

Heel drop will change your footstrike pattern. If your foot would do what it takes to land on your habitual footstrike, no matter how big or small is the drop. Why many elites use 10mm drop- I don’t know, but it’s not because that’s what they are used to!

Kipchoge/bekele/Rupp/ and most long distance were track runners many years- that means spikes- zero drop. So no- it’s not because they are used to 10mm drop.

Maybe with bigger drop your foot while on the ground is less dorsiflexed and that puts less stress on the calf and the Achilles and better for those longer than 10k distance- but I’m not sure

Meant will not change

We are talking about ELITE ATHLETES! These people are trying to win MILLIONS OF DOLLARS! You're telling me kenyans, etheopians, are MORE USED TO 10MM What? If Nike could win more races by lowering the drop they would! If lower drop improved times Hoka would win more.

Low drop/zero drop is a fad for hobby joggers. yes you can run fast in low drop shoes, but 10mm is ideal.

What's the deal with that? wrote:

I was told that low drop shoes would improve your running economy and make you faster. I run mostly in Kinvara and Hoka Cliftons which are 4-5mm drop shoes. If I want to be faster should I wear something like the Adios Boost (10mm drop)?

Its the opposite. Higher heel helps energy transfer to upper legs and not absorbed by the calves

Drop nasty wrote:

What's the deal with that? wrote:

I was told that low drop shoes would improve your running economy and make you faster. I run mostly in Kinvara and Hoka Cliftons which are 4-5mm drop shoes. If I want to be faster should I wear something like the Adios Boost (10mm drop)?

Its the opposite. Higher heel helps energy transfer to upper legs and not absorbed by the calves

This is the correct answer.

As long as you have correct form you will run faster with 10mm drop shoes.

Galen Rupptured my Butt with his Rod wrote:

Drop nasty wrote:

Its the opposite. Higher heel helps energy transfer to upper legs and not absorbed by the calves

This is the correct answer.

As long as you have correct form you will run faster with 10mm drop shoes.

That is ridiculous. Many Olympic Trials runners like Sage wear low drop hokas and are very very fast, maybe faster than those who were on the podium in London this weekend.

bleu wrote:

The only time you need a zero drop shoe is if you’re on the track and wearing spikes.

You may think you’re a forefoot marathon runner but you’re not!

Run a marathon in zero drop shoes and then join the post on Achilles/ischial tuberosity injures.

My running has gotten worse as I switched to purely Altras, I am converting back to 10mm drop for Marathon running.