INTERESTING Observations of Japanese training in China

Thousands could do this week. Unless Morcelli was running his 400's in 47-48 seconds, there's nothing difficult in

this training week.

According to the book, a typical Morceli interval workout would be 12x400 in 51 seconds with 20 second recovery. I would suggest that thousands could not do that workout.

Jason,

This way of training looks more mathematical than most. For that alone, I like it. Here is how your words play out in my head, and the questions that came up...

Likely vibratory rate/turnover/cycles etc. of the females involved

Standing Still : 0

Walking : 40-60

Shuffle : 60-70

Jog : 70 - 90

Light Run : 80 - 95

Moderate Run : 85 - 100

Intense Run : 95 - 110 (Equivalent to MAR rate)

Maximal Pulsed Energy : 100

The women you have had the pleasure to train with appear to be covering all possible rates of vibration. I'm wondering if they display any signs of putting out near maximal effort at each vibration as well, or if that is restricted only to the intense running rates of 95+. In case it's not completely clear, a near maximal effort at the rate of "0" would be equivalent to doing something like squats or other weight work. For walking, 40 - 60, maybe it would be carrying you on their shoulders etc. Please let me know Jason.

in regards to the post above, maximal pulsed energy was to show a number that was in between 100 and 135, but the characters typed out apparently are not compatible with this format.

Elite Japanese vibrators is a hell of a subject to pass up.

Jason might have some comments on Thai vibrators.

Well, what can I say? There are a few runners who fly in the face of the statistical norm. They're known as outliers. The ones who can produce semi-hard efforts day after day are NOT common. Are those types of runners the ones who will be great at the marathon? Not necessarily, but they ARE usually destined to be endurance-oriented runners. That is, they may not be awesome at the marathon, but probably will specialize at SOME distance above the mile. They tend to have extremely good natural economy at the speeds they can train at regularly. This means they can run at fairly fast speeds while consuming relatively low amounts of oxygen, indicating that they probably buffer lactate very well at those speeds. The East Africans on the whole appear to be NATURALLY better at this than your typical mzungu (nobody knows why), although there are exceptions on both sides.

The Japanese have found their niche in the longer distances (10,000m and up) and train almost exclusively for those events. It's not typical middle distance training by any means. And of course not ALL of the miles are JOGGING. But many runners find it easier to "zone in" and stay totally relaxed if they do a PORTION of their running (usually at the very beginning or the very end of an outing) at an extremely slow speed. And some secondary runs (the shorter runs of doubles) are done at a shuffling pace throughout. The idea is to feel as though you are doing NOTHING. If you are warming up, you want to have such a gradual transition from resting to running that there isn't any definable point of "effort" in the warmup; that is, by the time you're going 7:00 mile pace, your warmup has been so gradual and smooth that you still feel like you're sitting in a chair. That's what I mean by "zoning in". Practicing this type of relaxation can make a world of difference in how you feel when running. It also PREPARES your muscles better (and reduces injury risk) if you're going to do a hard workout after your warmup. It can also completely relax you if done at the END of a workout, making your legs feel better the next day. Plus it adds more time on your feet, which counts for something from an overall mileage standpoint.

The Japanese marathoners aren't the only elite runners who spend a fair amount of time at a crawling pace. Many top Kenyans start at a shuffle and STAY at that pace for a longer time than the average American would think is doing any good. Then they begin to imperceptibly squeeze the pace down until they're motoring along at just below their threshold (which may be about 4:40 mile pace for some of them). The super-slow start ensures that they do not accumulate any lactate early in the run and have to spend the rest of the outing dealing with it. They therefore run with the lowest possible lactate levels, even at the faster speeds.

But, I ramble. The point is that time on your feet and relaxation are very important and it can be beneficial to add some slow shuffling to accomplish these ends. I'm sure Khannouchi doesn't bound out the door at 4:45 pace every day; he probably starts at some pace that is slower than 4:45. And I say that it would not hurt him any if that slower pace was 9:00 pace. After all, what's the real difference between 9:00 pace and 6:30 pace for him? Both speeds are WAY slower than marathon pace, so they don't serve any function other than "easy" running. And starting at 9:00 pace would allow a more gradual warmup which would reduce injury risk and prepare the muscles better for any faster running which might be in store.

What about the shift between fast walking and slow jogging.

Same neuromuscular stimulation? Early turn of the century

distance runners spent a lot of time walking. Is there

much benefit to walking 25 miles at 8,000 feet?

What's the story on the Kru base walking?

This principle has made all the difference in the world for me this summer. My average run is well above anything I've done before--I'm healthier and feel better then ever.

I've done some 15 milers (which at this point is LONG for me)running the first 2 miles at 8-9 minute pace and while maintaining this effort have watched my pace drop to below 8, then to 7:30s, then 7s, then 6:30s, then to 6's and then increased the effort over the last mile and drop under 6 minute pace.

While raising my mileage I've had to run very slow (many 10 milers at 7:30/mile) just to tolerate it initially. The other day I was out on a run and ran into (no pun intended) a D-1 all-american 1500m runners and ran 5 miles with him. I noticed immediately that we were going faster. Well, the last half of the run or so we were hovering just over 6 min pace while running uphill--I couldn't believe that we were moving that fast because of how easy it was. I had been afraid that all the slow mileage that I had been doing (again because volume has been so absent in my training that it has to be slow for now)wouldn't end up doing me much good--my worries were put to rest. I plan to drop the pace after I reach the volume I feel I need for the 800m and 1500m. But the slow stuff has worked and served its purpose for now.

ET you sound like you are having a very similar experience to me. What are your prs and your goals and how old are you? I feel the exact same way about the mileage. While I've had to keep the majority of my miles slow (i.e. 7-8 min pace) in my quest to run a max of 90 miles in a week this week, my tempo pace has greatly improved as well.

JK, thanks once again for your brillant advice and insight....

Jason

?? wrote:

Six under 28 and 33 under 29. But none that JK coaches. "Nough said!

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Pretty funny. I can check the ip addresses on posts. and anytime I just see a random slam of letsrun.com or jk I check it often out out of curiosity. And it's always the same person. I just bet my roommates and said, "I bet it's ____ who started the thread "Letsrun.com destroying the sport" and low and behold it was the same guy. I won't reveal his name, but he lives in Florida in the tamba bay region.

Now onto the subject at hand. Let's see, the one semi-elite (non high school) runner JK coached this year set a 10k pr. I've been injured most of the year and if I don't set a pr it will be the first time I don't set one ever under the auspices of JK. So keep up the great work JK.

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WeJo - I agree with your last paragraph, but is it an official policy of LetsRun to reveal identities of anyone who happens to disagree with JK or one of the BroJos?

I am very dissapointed in you Wejo, especially since you could have made your point without your gestapo tactics.

I am even more dissapointed than nobody else seems to give a damn - not that I would expect it from people who post here.

Seems to me LR forum is more of a religious clan or a fanclub, consisting mostly of "Go WeJo!" nitwits, while any attempts to start a healthy and decent discussion are strongly discouraged. So someone mentions the fact that JK's athletes are not among top 40 in the nation this year - big deal!, and you answered him very well - nobody is expected to PR every year - but does it matter WHO posted it, as long as it's true? Are you also trying to gag anyone who dares to question RoJo's "druggie accusation" quest? Does this make you any better than the people who try to hush "drug" positives up?

This place smells of Taliban pluralism combined with Baghdad freedom of speech. Why don't you go one step further and list the guy's phone number and street address while you are at it? (just like it was done during "Melanie Strong" controversy).

Perhaps one of the team-WeJo groupies can pay him a visit?

By the way, I am not the one responsible for the "dissenting" posts, and I happen to disagree with the guy, but nevertheless find your tactics despicable. Over and out.

Jason,

What's the running seen like in Kunming. I've heard that China's air quality and roads are terrible. Is the running in Kunming any good? Is there a local (Chinese) running scene? Could you make a training base from that city?

yeah.and ekiden is very important especially for most Japanese,too.Some elite marathoners complain of ekiden training.And some talk as if Japanese are not strong as past because of ekiden.But you know,such Japanese legends were after all 2:08 marathoners or so,things change,Kenyan began seriously marathon ,I think ekiden is crucial for Japanese long distance,especially for countless B team runners.

1500m is so low profile.For a typycal example.There is a Japanese version of Alan Webb,Kiyoharu Satoh who ran 3:38 in 1999 when he was a high school student(Japanese record is 3:38:24 back in 1977).

But even then,at BBS like this ,Japanese main concern was whether he chose longer distance or chose 1500m and became one mediocre athlete.He chose latter(?) .Now he is a university student,he has not been well because of the injury ,and people don't care .

That holds true for most good athletes.Kayoko Hukushi,Miwako Yamanaka,Kayoko Hujinaga etc..When someone is good at one event ,peopel expect them to be a marahoner.

So

middie distance is not popular,people and athletes know that they can't match in those events.And acutually even events held in Japan,Kenyans who train in Japan team always secure top places with large margin(in men's events). Japanese tend to do better in longer distances.Training counts more in longer distances.are the main reasons because Japanese don't do well in the middle distance,I think.

And as for 10000m?3 or so Japanese who has not retired have sub 27:50 PR.So special?5000m ,5 or so (not retired) have sub 13;30 PR.

But Japanese don't care much ...as long as some of 28:30 runner run 2:07 or 2:08 marathon.

And one more thing.

There are countless teams in Japan,high school,University,company .And they train in countless ways ,some like hard way,some like scientific way,some train with Kenyan,some train etc...And only one thing what I am sure is strong team tend to train much.

And elite runners sometimes don't train with other team especially for marathon.Shibui and Tosa Jason met probably belong to the same team Mitui Kaijo number 1 women's team now in Japan(Miki?I don't know).

JK Say, Lydiard say:

Our depth is still pitiful compared to the Japanese, and it's because most of us are still HAMMERING ourselves to the ground with intense anaerobic interval "training" in HS and college as opposed to patiently developing aerobic capacity by running more and more miles at relaxed to medium speeds.

The following was published in New Studies in Athletics Arthur Lydiard

Born: Auckland. New Zealand, 6 July 1917

Titles: New Zealand Marathon 1953-1955

Representation: Commonwealth Games 1950

Personal best: 20 miles -1 hr 54m 52.4s; Marathon -2hr 39m 05s

-What advice would you give to young athletes (and their parents) if they wanted to join athletics training?

Run far and not fast. Children have a good maximal oxygen uptake capacity, in comparison to adults, which enables them for long runs. Coaches should avoid any anaerobic-lactic work with their young athletes. The parents should reduce the expectations on the development their children's.

jason,

why are you running seoul? the air is worse than in an outhouse! trust me, i live and run here. you best bet would have been the chuncheon marathon as that is usually where all of the "bigs" run in the fall here.

utah

Does it matter? wrote:

?? wrote:

Six under 28 and 33 under 29. But none that JK coaches. "Nough said!

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Pretty funny. I can check the ip addresses on posts. and anytime I just see a random slam of letsrun.com or jk I check it often out out of curiosity. And it's always the same person. I just bet my roommates and said, "I bet it's ____ who started the thread "Letsrun.com destroying the sport" and low and behold it was the same guy. I won't reveal his name, but he lives in Florida in the tamba bay region.

Come on Wejo. Let the old guy have his fun.

JohnnyUtah: I am running Seoul for various reasons:

(1) I started the Dong-A Marathon in Seoul in March, running a PR for half marathon before I had the side-stitch of my life at 25km! I really like Seoul. I realize the air quality is on the par with Bangkok.

(2) My agent, Shawn Hellebuyck, is the elite-athlete coordinator for the Joongang Ilbo Seoul Marathon on 3November. Apparently this is a new event for full-marathon. I believe it was a halfmarathon last year, winning time was 1;01+, so the course must be pretty good. It starts and finishes at the Olympic Stadium.

Shoot me a message at

shatteredsoul68@yahoo.com

and feel free to have a beer with me after the race!

Jason

JasonDoesAsia wrote:

Shoot me a message at

shatteredsoul68@yahoo.com

and feel free to have a beer with me after the race!

Jason

Wait, we thought you didn't drink beer?