70 year old Gene Dykes runs SUB 3 hour marathon after running 200 mile ultras!!

Why is that hard for you to believe?

Really? Maybe not wrote:

He ran the Boston marathon in 3:09:35 on April, 17, 2017

He ran a 3:25:03 marathon on March 17, 2018.

Then he ran a 7 minute marathon PR of 2:57:43 at the age of 70 on April 8, 2017.

OK.

Whatever you say.

He ran a 30:54 8K the day before the 3:25. That equates to 3:01 for the marathon, based on age-grading. Clearly the 3:25 was a training run.

2:57 wrote:

Really? Maybe not wrote:

He ran the Boston marathon in 3:09:35 on April, 17, 2017

He ran a 3:25:03 marathon on March 17, 2018.

Then he ran a 7 minute marathon PR of 2:57:43 at the age of 70 on April 8, 2017.

OK.

Whatever you say.

He ran a 30:54 8K the day before the 3:25. That equates to 3:01 for the marathon, based on age-grading. Clearly the 3:25 was a training run.

Or just a bad day. Do you think that's what this guy is looking at? It's amazing how many people seem to think that because you can run a time once you can, and will, do it or something close to it every time out.

2:57 wrote:

I also noticed that his results were all over the place. He races a LOT, and clearly many of them are "train-throughs". For instance his 3:25 was a day after winning the USATF 8K. It also seems like maybe 3-4 minutes of his PR is from the Nike 4% (?). Hard to judge this all but he seems like a straight-shooting type of guy, just loves to race.

+1

Lots of train-through races most likely. Half marathon before Rotterdam in 1:27 so can hold a pace and has the endurance (ultra background) to keep on going. The fast course at Rotterdam would have suited him.

The bottom line is that any age-group records in this era will be subject to questions, as pharmaceutical "anti-aging" enhancement has become much more mainstream since even Ed W's time, and AG runners will not be subject to random OOC testing. I personally expect to be roundly dinged as suspicious by jealous rivals should I ever be oh so fortunate to get even a relatively minor record.

My sense is that this guy is legit, but the shoes got him under 3:00. He is not quite in Ed's league...yet.

Red Flag!

2:57 wrote:

The bottom line is that any age-group records in this era will be subject to questions, as pharmaceutical "anti-aging" enhancement has become much more mainstream since even Ed W's time, and AG runners will not be subject to random OOC testing. I personally expect to be roundly dinged as suspicious by jealous rivals should I ever be oh so fortunate to get even a relatively minor record.

But does USADA even bother to test many masters/grandmasters IC? Don't they have enough trouble being able to afford the amount of doping controls needed for the elites. I know of a few of our faster grandmaster dudes in the masters club I belong to who race nationally and say they've never been tested once...period.

Any yes...pharmaceutical anti-aging therapy is exploding in this country. Just look at the number of "Low-T centers" cropping up in this country - it's freaking unbelievable! I know several 55+ year old buffed guys at the gym who openingly brag about about the prescription T they use. One cat even gave me a business card of the low-T center he goes to and told me to use him as a reference! ?. It sounds like it's a lucrative business.

Spotty IC testing at championships as a deterrent. I doubt there is testing required for AG records.

2:57 wrote:

Spotty IC testing at championships as a deterrent. I doubt there is testing required for AG records.

By "spotty" what do you mean? Are only the winners tested or is it just random depending on the type of event? And I take it there's absolutely no OOC testing whatsoever? ?

If that's the case then all an athlete would have to do is learn the glow times of the PED(s) they're using and never worry about testing positive at their targeted event, if they are to be tested at all. And if there's no OOC testing, then whatever IC testing exists for masters/seniors means nothing. The biggest deterrent, IMO, would be OOC testing. No OOC testing...then no telling what performances are clean or were influenced by use of PEDs.

There most definitely is USADA lead OOC testing for masters runners. Top ranked masters athletes are aware and welcome IC and OOC testing.

OOC testing for masters runners? ? That means they would have to be part of the whereabouts system, wouldn't they? I thought only the pros were part of the whereabouts system since it's costly to implement (i.e., travel expenses for testers to track down & test the athletes). I've never heard of an amateur masters runner tested OOC - do you have any cases to list? Maybe I'll check with the regulars on the GrandMaster thread and see what they have to say.

Gene Dykes' result from Boston 2018:

HALF 01:33:47

Finish Net 03:16:20

Finish Gun 03:22:41

I haven't done the math but if you calculate his time as a percentage of his PB (M70) it is probably a lot better than most of the elites.

FYI, I know Gene.

He ran the 3:25 marathon as prep for his WR attempt. He ran mostly ultras last year. He has cracked 1:30 in the half (1:26:xx). He hired the coach back in... I think 2013 ish and finished 3rd in his AG in Boston in 2014 in 3:0x:xx on a warm day. He also won the 3K (also maybe another race?) at the National Indoor Championships in march, and the same weekend won his age group in a couple races at Shamrock (8K and half?). Regardless, he is extremely talented, uses a professional coach, and works his tail off. Its a good combination. I saw him a year ago and he was definitely taking aim at AG WR's.

I'm not in that picture!

I just discovered this thread - I probably ought to respond to some of the questions raised.

1) My PR before Rotterdam was a 3:04 at Twin Cities, two and a half years earlier. Rotterdam was my first marathon PR attempt following that race, so you certainly shouldn't read too much into any marathon times after Twin Cities and before Rotterdam. Some marathons were just for fun and some were run hard, but without the training and tapering you would do before a PR attempt. In particular, the Shamrock Marathon three weeks before Rotterdam was a training run. I hit exactly the time I was shooting for and it was after running all out races the two days before.

2) I was actually the target of an unannounced USADA drug test last year! My local USATF rep thinks it was the first time ever that a senior runner was given a surprise test. I passed of course. Heck, I don't even like to take Ibuprofen.

Interested in what your typical training week looks like along with diet and any other non-running training?

Quite impressive!

M.A.G.A...

Okay...that's good enough for me. OOC testing is flawless and has a 100% detection rate now (they wouldn't have nailed Kiprop without an OOC test). OOC testing has turned the sport around back to being clean again. Since you passed the test, you're a clean, lean, fighting machine. ?

As one who will be thrilled if he can run a 1:29 half at 70, or even a sub-20 5K, a tip of the cap for a job well done!

You seem to follow your own version of what Yuki Kawauchi and Ed W have done, in terms of using over distance to make the marathon a manageable affair.

It was a good day. I pretty much nailed my target time for the marathon that race. By the way, I not only ran an 8K the day before, I ran the 3K indoor national championship race the day before that!