Last clean record holder at every event?

UBHCDEubhcdejhbcddihh wrote:

Libertarian vegan wrote:

Who was the last full natty at every event in track and field?

My guess

....

Marathon Carlos lopes

...r

What? This is a joke. The Portuguese were on the juice big time in the 80s. Mamede and Lopes were not close to being clean

What kind, how much and how do you know?

I go through life wearing rose colored glasses I guess. I really think that most runners are clean.

I'm thinking something like this:

100m

70 9.84 +1.3 Trayvon Bromell USA 10.07.95 1h4 Eugene 25.06.2015

200m

Maybe Ato Bolden or Christian Coleman around 19.80.

400m

I really struggled with this. Maybe one of the college guys like Jeremy Wariner or Quincy Watts. If not them, that it seems to me to go back (I am distrusting 1968 Americans because of experimentation in steroids and amphetamines).

800m

Surprisingly, it looks to me too dodgy until Steve Cram at 1:42.88.

I think others were on EPO, steroids, blood doping.

1000m

Cram again at 2:12.88

1500m

Willis at 3:29.66 just ahead of Cram at 3:29.67

Mile

Cram at 3:46.32

Webb is 2nd at 3:46.91, but I am not sure there because of the muscles/weight lifting, lots of steroids in those weight rooms--big temptation for someone so into lifting.

My question is how much time did you spend compiling such a garbage list. Jealous of Africans much?

casual obsever wrote:

Well, if I had to guess:

a) the last clean record was from before 1970. After that, the drugs were too powerful, and doping back then was way too easy, and still is.

b) the current clean record holders are random unknowns, e.g. over 5000 it could be anyone from the 13:00+ runners or so. Not saying that no one could run 12:59 clean, but he would be too tempted to dope and go under 12:50.

Casual, I agree with this, it is plausible to run sub 13. Running sub 13 is to tempting to someone running 13:10 and we know the drugs are powerful enough to solve this.

epicTCK wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Why not?

because it was at boston on net downhill with strong tailwind.

You know he ran other marathons besides that one right?

So you are a libertarian vegan, but a sexist racist?

El Keniano wrote:

vivalarepublica wrote:

My question is how much time did you spend compiling such a garbage list. Jealous of Africans much?

Every single person in the world runs. It's the one sport in the world where Africans aren't disadvantaged by a lack of funds, science, facilities or organisation therefore such threads can be such a rush! I especially love that black westerners aren't spared this jealousy, as most posters' picks for the sprints show, so watching green-eyed monster manifest a message board is a joy. I can live off the schadenfreude for days.

Most sports involve running too, so in Western countries, other more popular and higher paying sports will cream off a lot of the talent.

If you went back in time and implanted into the minds of the childhood Ronaldo , Gareth Bale, and Lionel Messi a dream of becoming 800m olympic champion in 2016 that they would pursue single-mindedly, I think it's a fair bet at least one of them would be in the mix with Rudisha in Rio. Gareth Bale was running 2:20 for the 800m at age 12 pretty much just off of his football training and playing.

It's funny how Western Africans manage to get to the top in a lot of other sports, from football to the UFC.

Actually, it's Western runners who are disadvantaged by science. They have to comply with advanced anti-drug testing any day any time, whereas Africans only when they are competing in Europe and America and not when training at their impassable remote backward hideouts. Not to mention it is Western science in the first place that created the PEDs that benefit Africans more than Europeans. I wont even mention the Western science that has allowed the Kenyan population to grow from 6 million in 1950 to 60 million (mostly young) in 2018, while Western science (safe abortions, the contraceptive pill etc) is predicted to shrink the native German population from 80 million today to maybe 20 million by the end of this century.

casual obsever wrote:

Well, if I had to guess:

a) the last clean record was from before 1970. After that, the drugs were too powerful, and doping back then was way too easy, and still is.

b) the current clean record holders are random unknowns, e.g. over 5000 it could be anyone from the 13:00+ runners or so. Not saying that no one could run 12:59 clean, but he would be too tempted to dope and go under 12:50.

Was there a big difference in PEDs in the 70s as compared to the 50's and 60s?

I thought steroids and amphetamimes were an even bigger problem amongst young Americans in the 1960s?

I know blood doping became popular in the 1970s, but it was still a difficult process I think, so not many would have been doing it.

I think one of the breakthroughs was the new form of HGH in the mid 1980s, which enabled the 100m sea level times to come down rapidly (the 100m non altitude WR improved by less than 2/10ths of a second in nearly 60 years until Carl Lewis et al. It's gone down over 4/10ths of a second in less than 30 years).

Aouita was probably the first middle-distance PED user, taking advantage of the new HGH available in the USA and guessing correctly that roids can be of benefit to distance runners if used for training recovery and if combined with blood doping.

Coevett wrote:

Was there a big difference in PEDs in the 70s as compared to the 50's and 60s?

Blood doping, initially allowed, and professionalizing of the steroid programs via the Cold War Wild West doping era.

But yes, I was being optimistic, and did not mean to imply that the 60s were clean.

As for the 100, that is a bit messy because of the timing and Ben’s 9.70 DQ.

Here are the best WR per decade (men's (mid) distance, highlighting the biggest steps:

Dista: 1950s –– 1960s –– 1970s –– 1980s –– 1990s –– 2000s –– 2010s

800::: 1:45.7. – 1:44.40 – 1:42.33 – 1:41.73 – 1:41.11 – NA NA N – 1:40.91

1500:: 3:36.0. – 3:33.1. – 3:32.03 – 3:29.46 – 3:26.00 – NA NA N – NA

5000:: 13:35.0 – 13:16.6 – 13:08.4 – 12:58.4 – 12:39.7 – 12:37.4 – NA

10000: 28:30.4 – 27:39.4 – 27:22.4 – 27:08.2 – 26:22.8 – 26:17.5 – NA

Marat: 2:15:17 – 2:09:36 – 2:09:06 – 2:06:50 – 2:05:42 – 2:03:59 – 2:02:57

(Please correct omissions and typos, if any)

fartleks and bagels wrote:

And last i cheeked Portuguese weren't white.

Really? When did you last check? Since when are Portuguese NOT white?[/quote]

When did Arabs become white?

When did Jews from Russia become native to the Middle East?

Hardloper wrote:

epicTCK wrote:

because it was at boston on net downhill with strong tailwind.

You know he ran other marathons besides that one right?

His second fastest is 2:06:17 at London. You think no-one has run faster than that clean? BS

So many factual errors in your post. For starters Kenya’s population is 45 million not 60 million. Smaller than the UK. And no. Neither Bale nor HGH Messi has the physiology that would have enabled them to mix it with Rudisha. Ridiculous, really.

Actually, it's Western runners who are disadvantaged by science. They have to comply with advanced anti-drug testing any day any time, whereas Africans only when they are competing in Europe and America and not when training at their impassable remote backward hideouts. Not to mention it is Western science in the first place that created the PEDs that benefit Africans more than Europeans

.

You can’t be serious with this. Given that testing (in Kenya, at least) has now been massively stepped up to levels comparable to those of any western country even when allowing for the fact that unlike the UK which can only muster a handful of truly world class runners, Kenya has thousands. What makes you think that western athletes don’t benefit from highly organised doping schemes like those in British cycling that are only just coming to light?

Coevett wrote:

Aouita was probably the first middle-distance PED user, taking advantage of the new HGH available in the USA and guessing correctly that roids can be of benefit to distance runners if used for training recovery and if combined with blood doping.

Maybe for recovery from brutal training & injury rehab (?), but the studies haven't been too kind for any type of improvement with male endurance athletes:

On HGH; very few studies with endurance athletes. This one demonstrated an significant anabolic effect on whole body protein metabolism at rest and during and after exercise:

epicTCK wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

You know he ran other marathons besides that one right?

His second fastest is 2:06:17 at London. You think no-one has run faster than that clean? BS

Agreed. Hundreds of Africans have run faster than this. At least ONE of them had to have been clean.

El Keniano wrote:

What makes you think that western athletes don’t benefit from highly organised doping schemes like those in British cycling that are only just coming to light?

Good point - Team Sky and their superman Chris Froome are getting exposed, causing the Brits to spill their tea in shock & awe.

Rocket Fuel Rick wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Aouita was probably the first middle-distance PED user, taking advantage of the new HGH available in the USA and guessing correctly that roids can be of benefit to distance runners if used for training recovery and if combined with blood doping.

Maybe for recovery from brutal training & injury rehab (?), but the studies haven't been too kind for any type of improvement with male endurance athletes:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16896724https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/798110

On HGH; very few studies with endurance athletes. This one demonstrated an significant anabolic effect on whole body protein metabolism at rest and during and after exercise:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14602753

Well maybe it was placebo effect for Aouita then?

It's 50 million now and will likely reach 60 million in another decade.

The under 35 population is already almost certainly bigger than that of the UK, particuarly the white population of the UK. It was recently confirmed that over 1/4 of 15 year old 'British' have an immigrant background.

You mean they're white? In what way does Gareth Bale, for example, have the 'wrong physiology' that for example, Cram didn't?

.

Testing in Kenya comparable to Western levels, LOL!

Cycling is a bit different isn't it? For a start, it's Team SKY that are under a cloud, a professional multi-million business in a sport which has accepted doping as part of its culture for decades. And they're accused of pushing the envelope and crossing the ethical line, not microdosing EPO and such.

If UK atheltics were indeed mircodosing the likes of Jake Whiteman and Chris O'Hare as in your anti-white fantasy world, I think they'd at least be running times comparable to Coe and Ovett back nearly half-a-century ago.

this is a very white list...no Rudisha???? pretty sure he is clean- even the budding entrepreneur that created the sweet, sweet run gum says so!