PED and Drug Use During Seb Coe's time

LOL, sure you think that only Western athlete's don't dope?

Tell us why was professional road cycling infested with doping back in 1990s-2000s? Because of Africans & Eastern Europeans??

Do you know that 75% of the urine samples from 1998 T. De France that were retrospectively tested for rEPO went back positive?

Cycling and track are different sports. Cycling is also on a professional team basis, and it was common knowledge that EVERY other team was juiced to the gills, so despite the public witchburning of Lance Armstrong, he wasn't doing anything that just about every professional cyclist was doing. There was no sense of cheating to get an unfair advantage over another individual.

I doubt very much John Walker was looking at Steve Ovett and Steve Ovett was looking at Seb Coe and Seb Coe was looking at John Walker - all saying ' well he's obviously on PEDs so I have to take them to keep up and it's not cheating.'

Coevett wrote:

LOL. The KGB or East Germans were probably spying on Coe and Ovett during the 80s to try to copy their methods. East Germany was spending x% of it's GDP simply to get to the top of the medals tables. I'm sure they could have spared a few bob for one of their agents to take a look at Coe and Ovett who were in different league to anyone else to see what they could learn. If they had ever found any evidence of Coe doping I'm sure it remained on file somewhere and Putin would have been made aware of it by now.

Actually it was Peter Coe who obtained East German and Russian coaching and physiology articles and translated them so he was likely taking something from their methods.

Although they were great runners I am not sure you can say that Coe or Ovett were in a "different league" from everyone else - neither won a truly global medal at a non-boycotted global championships. Guys such as Scott, Cram, Cruz, Abasacal, Bile, Maree, Wessinghage, Straub, Elliott, Beyer, or Ferner to name a few were all pretty much up there as well and most of them had their wins over Coe or Ovett at major races.

As for whether Coe or Ovett were doping I don't know. But with the revelations of what has been going on in track and field over the last 10 years, nothing would surprise me anymore.

Coevett wrote:

I doubt very much John Walker was looking at Steve Ovett and Steve Ovett was looking at Seb Coe and Seb Coe was looking at John Walker - all saying ' well he's obviously on PEDs so I have to take them to keep up and it's not cheating.'

That's usually how it is in many sports, individual or otherwise. So, why would it be any different in T&F?

Seppelt fan wrote:

Although they were great runners I am not sure you can say that Coe or Ovett were in a "different league" from everyone else - neither won a truly global medal at a non-boycotted global championships. Guys such as Scott, Cram, Cruz, Abasacal, Bile, Maree, Wessinghage, Straub, Elliott, Beyer, or Ferner to name a few were all pretty much up there as well and most of them had their wins over Coe or Ovett at major races.

As for whether Coe or Ovett were doping I don't know. But with the revelations of what has been going on in track and field over the last 10 years, nothing would surprise me anymore.

This has been done to death a thousand times here. Ovett destroyed all the boycott athletes the week before Moscow when they were likely far more motivated than him. Between 1979 and 1981 Ovett and Coe were in a different league to anybody else. Ovett I think only lost once - to Coe and a clearly juiced up Straub at Moscow - between 77 and 81 at 1500/Mile. Coe was two seconds faster than anybody else in history in 1981. Coe lost a lot of races in the next few years when he was clearly ill for most of that time, and Ovett had a chunk of his thigh removed and then had the problems at LA in 84.

In 1981 it is fair to say that Coe and Ovett were on another level to anybody else and it seemed that it would remain that way for at least another couple of years or so. By the end of the 81 season it was obvious that Cram was developing into a similar talent at the Mile but he was still not quite in their league. A couple of the other guys you mentioned like Cruz and Bile did reach a (brief) potential comparable to Coe and Ovett in their respective specialist differences (800 and 1500). Cruz ran close to Coes WR three times in 84 and never really threatened again. If Coe had remained fit in 82 or chased the WR several times in 81 instead of the 1500/Mile he might have run low 1.41 or even faster and still be the WR holder. He should have beaten a prime Bile when he as way past his best at the 1989 World Cup but was impeded.

And thanks for not mentioning Aouita ;D

Well said. Agree with all the top bit.

It's not Coe or Ovett's fault that some nations boycotted. It made very little difference in the 8 or 15 anyway. Coe and Ovett beat everyone that wasn't in Moscow before and/or after the Games. The only exception being Paige in the 800, who beat Coe by a couple of inches, when Coe was suffering with a pelvic tilt and had narrowly missed the 1500 WR less than 24 hours earlier.

There was no one missing in LA at either distance that had a realistic chance of winning a medal.

Ovett also won Global titles in the World Cup 1500 in 77 and 81. Coe won the World Cup gold at 800 in 81 and silver at 1500 in 89, and could have won gold had Bile not impeded him.

So that's 3 global titles for Ovett and 3 for Coe. And this was at a time when there was no World Champs, at least in the peak years of their careers, and when they were introduced in 83, they were only held every 4 years. So not a level playing field in comparisons with more recent times.

Coe and Ovett broke 19 world records (including indoors) between them. The other 11 athletes the previous poster compared as their equal, above, broke 5 between them; and that was down to just 2 athletes.

Between 78 and 82, Coe and Ovett were head and shoulders above anyone else, when fit.

Ovett lost just 3 races over 1500/mile between the June 77 and the beginning of 82. That's 5 seasons.

Coe lost only twice at any distance, between the European Champs in 78 and those in 82, when he was suffering with mono.

A lot of ifs and buts and shouldas are used in your argument. We could also say that if Beyer had remained fit and not sustained an severe injury requiring surgery in 1979 he would have gone on to dominate championship 800m running for the next 5 years, or if Cruz had not had injuries due to leg length differences he would have run faster, or if Gonzalez had not been severely injured prior to the 1984 Olympics he would have won etc . etc. . Basically the same type argument of injuries or illnesses preventing Coe or Ovett from fulfilling their potential can be used for almost every single one of their rivals competing in the same league as they did. Gonzales finished 2nd to Bile in 1987 as did Coe in 1989. Both were excellent efforts but Bile was the better man over championship 1500m running whether we like it or not when you actually look at the results.

The fact remains that neither Coe or Ovett, great as they were, never won a medal in a non-boycotted global championship. They had their chances in 1983 and 1987 and 1988 and other runners of their generation were able succeed in doing so even though they were also impacted by the boycotts. British runners Elliott and Cram have better championship running credentials in this regard.

I did not mention Aouita as his best championship performances were over 5000m – but you can include him as well if you wish :D

Stupid argument.

Beyer was named in official Stasi documents as being on a state sponsored doping programme, so any point referencing his exploits is a moot one.

In addition, he never won any medal at a global championships. He also ran a 1:44.3, less than half a second slower than his 78 pb, in 81, but was easily beaten by Coe in the European Cup 800 and Ovett in the 1500 World Cup.

Cruz's injuries came in 86, and he could not improve on his 84 pb in 85. His only gold was also in a boycotted Olympic final, so by applying your reasoning, he never won a global title either.

It's laughable to even mention Gonzales in the same league as Coe or Ovett. He did nothing in his career than matched Coe's run in LA. He never won any outdoor title, boycotted or not, global or not!

Bile ran in 2 global champs over 1500m; he failed to reach the final in the 84 Olympics and in 87 won gold against a below par Cram and without Aouita in the race. Coe won 2 Olympic golds against better fields. In Moscow he had to beat the then reigning 1500 and mile record holder and in LA, everyone was there except Aouita, who chose to run the 5k. The boycott had no effect on the quality of fields in either middle distance events.

Coe did not have a chance to even compete in the 83 and 87 World Champs due to illness and then injury.

Any athlete would tell you that an Olympic medal is worth more than a World Champs medal, boycott or not.

You do realise that there were boycotts in 76 and 88 also, don't you?

In which case, based on your reasoning, Juantorena, Walker, Ereng, Rono, etc, also failed to win Olympic titles. Only one of them won a medal at a World Champs.

Positive Tests for elites athletes are withheld so as not to tarnish the image of the Sport.

No way on God's earth people can transform their bodies in such forms without the use of PEDs.

Confuseditron wrote:

Blood doping was big in the early-80s, there wasn't anything else for distance guys not into steroids.

Cyclists of that era were into what they called speedballs, but I never saw that on the track.

Vainio, last of the Finnish top distance runners, tested positive for steroids after the 1984 10k (second place). He made many different excuses, one of which was apparently that he thought it was testosterone and not steroids that he was taking... another speculation was that the glow time mistake was due to blood bag blood still containing traces of steroids.

If you have seen Vainio, he was tall, thin, and not muscular at all. But steroids, as well as testosterone, do help with recovery, and Vainio had problems with overtraining.

Gonzalez was not on Coe's level and is perhaps even more suspicious with blood doping as a Spanish athlete of that era or later but he did nearly equal Coe's former mile wr.

World Cup champs don't rate in track. Try soccer.

zxcvxcvzxc wrote:

World Cup champs don't rate in track. Try soccer.

Actually, they were specifically introduced by the IAAF as a precursor to the World Champs, and those who won were considered World Champions at the time.

If you look at the fields, especially in the 77 and 81 versions, they were more often than not better than those in Moscow and as good as those in Helsinki and LA. I agree that those World Cups that came after the inaugural World Champs in 83 were not as important, but the first 3 were.

Oh come on Rick! ⤴Us white folks we have high moral fibre/fiber.😉 We name our children Lance, Paula, Mary and Tyler, and they grow up to be ambassadors of virtue and integrity. I couldn't think of a single person named Tyler who would even remotely consider taking drugs. Oh, except for Steven Tyler 😂😄😉

I would touch on the topic of Sebastian Coe, I think it's worth discussing.

As people have noted many things (such as blood doping) that are now illegal were simply morally borderline back in the good old days.

So whilst "Lord Coe" painted a perfect picture of himself as the boy every mother would love as a son-in-law - the well educated, well spoken foil to the brash, arrogant and cocky Steve Ovett, many people who actually knew both of them might have a different opinion.

If you think it was out of the realm of possibility that Seb Coe wouldn't for example resort to something morally wrong (such as blood doping and whatever else was performance enhancing at the time yet not technically illegal), this is the same brother that had an affair with a high profile female 800m runner he was "advising" while she was staying at his house (where his wife also lived) back in the early 2000's.

If you think the only thing Sebby was doing was jacking himself off pre-race to get a timely hit of testosterone then you are all sadly mistaken

If you're talking about Tamsyn Lewis, I would suggest you check your sources.

She stayed with the Coes while training in London in 2003, and remained a friend who stays with his family every summer. When the Daily Mail claimed they were having an affair and Coe sued, the tabloid backed down, apologised to Coe in their paper and paid all court costs. If you're going to claim he was having an affair with Miss Lewis, after it was proved he was not in court, then it might be a good idea to produce your new evidence, or else make sure you know a good libel lawyer.

Did Coe ever respond to this?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Here's a good lead to chase down about Coe himself:

http://www.is.fi/yleisurheilu/art-2000001066515.htmlhttp://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6985614

Honestly I have no idea if he has even been asked about it.The Brojos declined to engage in any journalism on the issue and I'm not aware any other outlets pursued it.

tyysonnbgfyyayy wrote:

Did Coe ever respond to this?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Here's a good lead to chase down about Coe himself:

http://www.is.fi/yleisurheilu/art-2000001066515.htmlhttp://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6985614

Coevett wrote:

I still think it would be unlikely Coe would have the brass to go for the head job if he had even engaged in anything as shady as 'legally' blood doping in the 80's.

Oh, yeah, Lamine Diack was a saint. That's why he's still the subject of a French investigation.

Coevett wrote:

I would also imagine that Russia and their state sponsored hackers would have found something on him by now if there was anything.

.

You mean IAAF officials demanding bribes so Russians never test positive?

As we have learned, Coe knows nothing. He doesn't even read his email. Doesn't know how to operate a computer.

I never talked about 1976 and we are not talking about whether someone won an Olympic title or not, we are talking about whether they were really facing something that represented true global competition in a given championship. If you are trying to extrapolate that the boycott of the 1988 Olympics (North Korea and its allies Albania, Ethiopia, Cuba, Madagascar, and the Seychelles) affected the depth of competition in the middle distances as much as the 1980 or 1984 games then you are the one coming up with poor arguments - 1980 was heavily impacted: no Wessinghage, no Steve Scott (this also deprived him of experience for the 1984 games), no John Walker (defending champ), as was 1984 no Straub, no Kirov, no Busse - you could find more significant names yourself if you were able to do some unbiased research.

Your prejudice is amusing in that you don't think Gonzalez was in the same league as Coe or Ovett over 1500m/mile. He won a medal in a global championship that was not heavily boycotted which Coe and Ovett did not do. Overall his medal hall in international championships was more than that of Ovett and the same in number as that of Coe. He beat Coe in the most significant mile race of the 1980s where Cram broke the world record and his 1500m and mile PRs are very comparable to those of Ovett and Coe respectively. But hey, don't let facts and figures get in the way of how you want to see things....

It is impossible to understand why you cannot accept why injury and illness also affected all of Coe's and Ovett's rivals - Walker had very debilitating injuries after winning the 1976 Olympic title over 1500m, Gonzales did not get a chance to really compete in the 1984 games as he was badly injured, Cruz also had injuries as you mention etc. etc. ... If you are going to accuse me of anti-British bias on this one then I will also point out that Peter Elliott and Steve Cram could also have won much more and run faster if they had not had their serious injury problems as well.

As for Bile, you try to downplay his performances in 1987 but he had to defeat an in form Gonzales (who beat Coe in the 1985 dream mile) as well as an up and coming Jens Peter Herald who won a bronze in the 1988 Olympics and was just behind Coe (who was behind Bile) in the 1989 World Cup. We could also argue that in 1984 Coe did not face Aoutia and "only" had to deal with an injured Cram, and a Sick Ovett (as I have said several times now most of their rivals struggled with injury and illness problems throughout their careers). You seem to be also missing the second part of Bile's career: he also won a bronze medal in the 1991 World Champs (not heavily boycotted and therefore truly global) and he also finished 6th in the 1996 Olympics where he had to battle many more sub 3 30 guys than Coe, Ovett, Gonzales or Cram ever faced.

The point about Beyer which you seem to miss is that his career was truncated by a serious foot injury after his 1978 victory. This required several surgeries and was never really resolved. He was younger and less experienced than Coe and Ovett yet he handily defeated them both so he obviously had a bright career ahead of him.

Regarding Beyer's drug use ok he was referenced in East German files but as we have seen recently drug use appears to be very widespread in Track and Field at the top level so Beyer's use was basically detected only because his government had a file on him. Who knows what Coe and Ovett were doing? Definitely some British athletes were using PEDs in the 1970s and 80s look at David Jenkins for example. Just because there are no government files on something does not mean that it did not happen.