GBR Andrew Butchart -- Profile, Progression, Questions?

KAV wrote:

Roho. wrote:

These f***ing boards, no one is allowed to improve without dope suspicion. How does anyone get anywhere?

You noticed it is only a one way street....

Incorrect times ten. Butchart's 1500 PR of 3:44 and his 3000 7:45 are merely months old. For anyone having trained, having raced (a lot of documented racing year-by-year for AB), this kind of improvement doesn't just happen. He went from 13:58 to 13:08 in 2 years. His 800/1500/3000 progression doesn't warrant his 13:13 & 13:14, and certainly not 13:08 for 6th in an OLY final.

Athletics Weekly

"TYPICAL WEEK’S TRAINING FOR ANDREW BUTCHART

Saturday – AM: session – 16x1minute reps; PM: 5miles

Sunday – AM: 14-17miles steady

Monday – AM: 8 miles; PM: 5 miles

Tuesday – AM: 5 miles; PM: hill session

Wednesday – AM: 11miles; PM: yoga

Thursday – AM: 5 miles; PM: session – 7x1km reps.

Friday – AM: 8 miles"

Interesting. Looking at 2014/2015 seasons, by no means was he owning anyone regionally and domestically. He was a good club runner putting up respectable results. This 2016 breakout is an absolute SPIKE in his progression landscape. By these massive improvements/small time frame, Butchart will be sub 13 next season. 2020 Olympics he'll be 28. 6th in 2016.

Wrongers United wrote:

KAV wrote:

You noticed it is only a one way street....

Incorrect times ten. Butchart's 1500 PR of 3:44 and his 3000 7:45 are merely months old. For anyone having trained, having raced (a lot of documented racing year-by-year for AB), this kind of improvement doesn't just happen. He went from 13:58 to 13:08 in 2 years. His 800/1500/3000 progression doesn't warrant his 13:13 & 13:14, and certainly not 13:08 for 6th in an OLY final.

Everything you said applies to Chelimo as well... but i cant hear anyone expressing any doubts the jump he has progressed this year (even more so).

Anyway since you talk of progression cross distance:

ran 13'29 in 2015

ran 3'44.5 in 2015 = 13'24" 5k

ran 7'45 in 2016 early = 13'19 5k

ran 13'13 @ Golden League in July

and now he ran 13'08

If this is not a progression i don't know what is.

It sucks to have raced but not improved isnt it...

How about actually looking wrote:

Interesting. Looking at 2014/2015 seasons, by no means was he owning anyone regionally and domestically. He was a good club runner putting up respectable results. This 2016 breakout is an absolute SPIKE in his progression landscape. By these massive improvements/small time frame, Butchart will be sub 13 next season. 2020 Olympics he'll be 28. 6th in 2016.

I saw him win his national XC title at Falkirk in Feb 15 and defend in 16. That's more than 'a good club runner'.

The Scot wrote:

How about actually looking wrote:

Interesting. Looking at 2014/2015 seasons, by no means was he owning anyone regionally and domestically. He was a good club runner putting up respectable results. This 2016 breakout is an absolute SPIKE in his progression landscape. By these massive improvements/small time frame, Butchart will be sub 13 next season. 2020 Olympics he'll be 28. 6th in 2016.

I saw him win his national XC title at Falkirk in Feb 15 and defend in 16. That's more than 'a good club runner'.

Couple of pics I took of him Feb 15 2nd one is a bit small sorry

Also fastest leg in the English National road relays back in Oct 2014...

http://www.race-results.co.uk/results/2014/nat614.htm

helping his Scottish team Central place 4th.

KAV wrote:

Wrongers United wrote:

Incorrect times ten. Butchart's 1500 PR of 3:44 and his 3000 7:45 are merely months old. For anyone having trained, having raced (a lot of documented racing year-by-year for AB), this kind of improvement doesn't just happen. He went from 13:58 to 13:08 in 2 years. His 800/1500/3000 progression doesn't warrant his 13:13 & 13:14, and certainly not 13:08 for 6th in an OLY final.

Everything you said applies to Chelimo as well... but i cant hear anyone expressing any doubts the jump he has progressed this year (even more so).

Anyway since you talk of progression cross distance:

ran 13'29 in 2015

ran 3'44.5 in 2015 = 13'24" 5k

ran 7'45 in 2016 early = 13'19 5k

ran 13'13 @ Golden League in July

and now he ran 13'08

If this is not a progression i don't know what is.

It sucks to have raced but not improved isnt it...

By all means, start a Paul Chelimo thread. The OP clearly has the athlete's name, the word progression, and "questions". You have made this a national issue for yourself and assume I am American. It should be seen that my comparison to Collis Birmingham eludes to Australia. I am well versed with club running and I have toes the line with many Olympians.

Legitimate questions with legitimate progression red flags. Cheers.

Everyone on this forum who suspects Andrew Butchart is doping are all a bunch of wa**ers. I have trained with the him for the past 5 years, I've seen him quit his job to pursue a dream as an athlete, I've seen him dedicate more time and effort into running than anyone else. So for all you f**ckers who bitch like a*seholes on this forum why don't you come down to central training and see the amount of effort he puts in.

And for Derek, he's an incredible coach, the best there is and that's all I have to say about that.

Miserable pricks the lots of yous.

Dale Colley wrote:

. I have trained with the him for the past 5 years, I've seen him quit his job to pursue a dream as an athlete, I've seen him dedicate more time and effort into running than anyone else. .

What? There's nothing spectacular or time consuming about his training posted above.

"Time and effort into running"? You must be a total loser if you think any of that is outstanding.

Levins was putting in 180 mile weeks for an aerobic base, before he ran the hard sessions with Salazar

So what SHOULD his progression from 13:58 to 13:08 be? And how have you worked that out given that by far most 13:58 guys never progress to 13:08 at all?

That Butchart might not have told the whole truth about his training?

Also worth noting that the quality of races he has been in of late is a huge jump from 2014.

Finally, anyone that thinks a 3:44 is a true representation of his 1500m ability doesn't know the sport. The guy could clearly run a 3:37 in the right setting.

Roho. wrote:

These f***ing boards, no one is allowed to improve without dope suspicion. How does anyone get anywhere?

Before performance enhancing drugs existed, nobody ever got faster - true fact - people just raced their PB in their first ever race and never got any faster no matter how much they trained.

The crazy world of Letsrun trolls

Did it occur to you? wrote:

That Butchart might not have told the whole truth about his training?

Also worth noting that the quality of races he has been in of late is a huge jump from 2014.

Finally, anyone that thinks a 3:44 is a true representation of his 1500m ability doesn't know the sport. The guy could clearly run a 3:37 in the right setting.

So, I've run with a 3:36 guy and he couldn't do 13:08. And his coach was Bishop's coach, and would have got him there if it was possible.

Way under the radar... wrote:

Let's get some speculation going here. How has this kid suddenly gone from a 13:29 best one year ago to 13:08.61?

What you really mean is...Let's get some hate going here. Let's not.

Scots love to complain about being overlooked, but this is actually a valid case in point. AB has come from obscurity (to non-Scots) really quickly. I would like to see what he did differently this last year or so.

Did it occur to you? wrote:

That Butchart might not have told the whole truth about his training?

Also worth noting that the quality of races he has been in of late is a huge jump from 2014.

Finally, anyone that thinks a 3:44 is a true representation of his 1500m ability doesn't know the sport. The guy could clearly run a 3:37 in the right setting.

1500m has been his bread and butter historically and takes up the bulk of his recorded results. A good five year stretch of 5-8 1500m races a year with a basic line debunks your statement.

One thing is for sure, this jump has happened within a few months leading up to Rio.

It's not like this kid was even owning everyone in regional and national competition last year. He simply wasn't. But he's 6th in the world this month.

..and I agree that AW-quoted training is not the story. Could be any number of HS kids weeks. Would not take you from 13:44 to 13:08, thats for sure.

AthsVictoria wrote:

Did it occur to you? wrote:

That Butchart might not have told the whole truth about his training?

Also worth noting that the quality of races he has been in of late is a huge jump from 2014.

Finally, anyone that thinks a 3:44 is a true representation of his 1500m ability doesn't know the sport. The guy could clearly run a 3:37 in the right setting.

1500m has been his bread and butter historically and takes up the bulk of his recorded results. A good five year stretch of 5-8 1500m races a year with a basic line debunks your statement.

One thing is for sure, this jump has happened within a few months leading up to Rio.

It's not like this kid was even owning everyone in regional and national competition last year. He simply wasn't. But he's 6th in the world this month.

He was in a similar position at the XC at Holyrood at the winter. That was the only race he lost in the country since Liverpool which looks like it was an off day. Garrett Heath won that day.

In the right setting means a race that's won in 3:35ish. Have a look through the results of all of his 1500m races and tell me how many have been won in that sort of time? In fact, in the UK, it's exceedingly rare for races to be won much under 3:39, and a lot of the Miler club races are a lot slower tactical affairs.

The kid got his standards for Rio earlier this year, opened up his season with a non rabbited 5000m in 13:37, and destroyed the field at the British Championships. So the "few months" is another exaggeration.

you obviously know fuc* all about running and just athletes in general if you think you every athlete has to run 180 miles a week to get some where. I must be a total loser? You don't even me! Why don't you come down to central training and I'll give you a lesson on running because you are clearly a f*cking retard.