Andy Dufresne wrote:
It's almost like college athletes should get together and together, collectively, bargain for a set of rules that would protect them. I wonder what we would call it.
Entitled 9
Andy Dufresne wrote:
It's almost like college athletes should get together and together, collectively, bargain for a set of rules that would protect them. I wonder what we would call it.
Entitled 9
It's very common. Coaches will bring in frosh on full or close to full scholarships, then reduce. Track is notorious for it among NCAA sports, despite efforts to mitigate the practice. It isn't an employment contract. Coaches hold all the power. How many athletes/parents would really try to negotiate or know the rules?
gnome de plume wrote:
LookAtTheRules wrote:Can you cite the Bylaw, please?
Yeah, I'm curious too as the NCAA site has the following language, which seems inconsistent with such a rule:
"If a school plans to reduce or not renew a student-athlete’s aid, the school must notify the student-athlete in writing by July 1 and provide an opportunity to appeal. In most cases, coaches decide who receives a scholarship, the scholarship amount and whether it will be renewed."
http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/future/scholarships
Seems like July 1 is later than is should be.
Seems like a lot of debate over something that comes off as hearsay. No one is entitled to a scholarship. Colleges choose to award scholarships based on the decision of their coaching staff.
Why is this being presented as a fair and objective process? It's no different than than how the overwhelming majority of employers treat their employees.
Life is not fair, no one owes you a thing.
Pretty much all scholarship offers are verbal--you know, unless they're being offered through pantomime or interpretive dance or something.
Were you thinking of oral scholarship offers, as distinct from written ones?
Does everyone live in Maryland?? I could use some summer running buddies, I live south west of Baltimore
Yes! All of the maryland people should get together for a meetup.
That way they can all decide where to move to escape that sh!tty state.
It does really suck to be a guy that beating out someone regularly and you KNOW he's getting a big scholarship while you are scrapping by. I was there, and yeah, it does create some resentment.
When the coach called me in to discuss my scholarship in my 2nd year (after out performing most guys on the team) I was very insulted. As a male XC runner I knew somewhere in the back of my mind that I was lucky to be getting anything, so arguing about how much seemed greedy and useless.
What Ms. Hiltz failed to mention is that the lack of enthusiasm from UofO staff was entirely due to non-track issues. Dat broad is not exactly a model citizen.
No lie y'all. I KnowsStuff.
Other thoughts wrote:
Seems like a lot of debate over something that comes off as hearsay. No one is entitled to a scholarship. Colleges choose to award scholarships based on the decision of their coaching staff.
Why is this being presented as a fair and objective process? It's no different than than how the overwhelming majority of employers treat their employees.
Life is not fair, no one owes you a thing.
I mean, it's a lot different than how business work. If my company wants to reduce my salary, I have the option of jumping ship and going somewhere else. That's not always the case for athletes, especially when the reduction might happen in July, only leaving 6 weeks before classes start.
I had a reduction happen to me at a perennial top 25 school. I had one season of outdoor eligibility left after I finished undergrad and was planning to return for a masters. My coach verbally promised that they would continue my scholarship for my fifth year and wasn't made aware that they cut it completely until July.
I went to what use to be a D2 powerhouse school high in the mountains of Colorado. I was promised a scholarship (tuition and books paid for) if I hit x and x times and achieved All-American in Cross Country and made it to finals in outdoor track. I did all those things and every time the coach would tell me to do more and more and I would. Needless to say I got suckered because all of the money I was promised along with a few other athletes were given ultimately to the Kenyans they recruited who lied about their times to get money (our coach didn't know how to use the internet, they had an assistant do all the electronic communication). I still get crap in the mail requesting money and donations for the athletic dept; I just throw them in the trash. Get everything you can in writing have somebody sign it otherwise it's just a line of bs to keep athletes at a school for a very cheap price.
Rather than focus on the symptoms, the real issue is the format of the NCAA. Amateurism and title 9, create these lose lose situations.
Other thoughts wrote:
Seems like a lot of debate over something that comes off as hearsay. No one is entitled to a scholarship. Colleges choose to award scholarships based on the decision of their coaching staff.
Why is this being presented as a fair and objective process? It's no different than than how the overwhelming majority of employers treat their employees.
Life is not fair, no one owes you a thing.
Posted the NCAA defender.
It's nothing like being an employer/employee. Nothing. Eligibility/seasons/rules all make the strategic withdrawal of scholarship funds very hard on the athlete.
The school I ran for had a specific school policy that it could not take away your athletic aid unless you quit the team or fell under a 3.0 for >1 semester.
Though it was comforting not to feel like my ability to attend a rather expensive private school was in question every season, honestly as another poster mentioned, it led to entitled teammates not really caring or having any motivation to perform. This manifested itself to different levels, some getting super involved in Greek life or others just giving up on going to therapy and stringing their injuries out forever. For the group of us who did care and gave it our all, it created a frustrating divide.
While I think it is huge to protect the interests of the athlete, I see the benefit of being able to cut scholarships to an extent if the athlete is not holding up his/her end of the bargain. Heck, we had a person quit and then get paid out of our guys' team's funds to be the mascot at football and basketball games for the last couple years of his career. You can imagine what a slap in the face that would be to many of our walk ons who were busting their tails every day.
Regarding the 4 year scholarships "guarantee" (or whatever you'd want to call it), I don't think the NCAA has passed anything, but the "Power 5" conferences did vote it in, and it became effective this past academic year (http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/power-5-leagues-pass-cost-of-attendance-proposal-dont-stop-there/).
I haven't seen a list, but assume some other schools or conferences have followed their lead. (I believe here in Colorado I read somewhere that Colorado State also announced the 4 yr. scholarship "guarantee" soon after the Power 5 voted it in, so assume some/ many other schools around the country also have done so?)
My spouse was seen jogging near the track as freshman and was invited to walk on. Ended up getting some money, in fact close to full (tuition, fees, books, and a housing stipend) as a 5th year senior. So in that case it worked pretty well. The team was solid, sent some runners to nationals, but didn't get past regionals in XC in those years.
A couple decades later I coached a high school runner, and after placing top 20 at Footlocker West suggest that this runner check out our alma mater. Even there were better offers (full ride from 2 DI schools), the runner chose our old school, which had become a regional force/perennial NCAA qualifier. It didn't work out.
Year 1 cross, in and out of top 7 but did not make top 7 for conference or regionals. Track, stress fracture after 2nd or 3rd indoor meet and missed outdoors. At the end of the year the head T&F coach (not the one that recruited and coached distance) brought in the athlete and said, 'we wasted our money on you this year and if you want to keep your 70% scholarship you will have to be top 5 or 7 and score points at conf. indoors, outdoors, etc.
Year 2 cross, the athlete trained like mad over the summer (overtrained imo, but using coach's schedule to the letter) and had a 2nd XC about like the first. At the end of the semester--without prodding from any coaches--the athlete asked for a meeting and rescinded the scholarship and left the school. Did not want to face the intimidation and pressure from the head coach.
Transferred to a DII school and got full ride, ran 2 XC nationals, and qualified individually in spring for two years.
Especially for males, RoJo's point about the Ivy League bears repeating.
How many American men actually get FULL rides in Division I these days? The fact is, the Ivies' need-based scholarships are now extremely generous and a kid from a middle-class family (or lower income than that) is going to pay *very* little, or nothing, to go Ivy. Families are increasingly choosing to give up the "my kid got a scholarship!" brag and go with the bottom line.
In recent years I've been noticing that particularly in the throwing events. Okay, the League has always gotten distance and (especially) middle-distance runners, and still does. But in the last several years I've noticed that some of the *top* US male throwers are going Ivy, and as a group they seem to be thriving.
[I used to coach (all the events), and can say that I'm not terribly surprised by this development: I always felt that, as a group--yeah, there were some major individual exceptions--throwers tended to be level-headed and have a pretty firm grasp on reality. (Or, to put it another way, they were less likely to have their heads up their @ss.) And Thrower Dads (you know, parallel to Soccer Moms) always seemed a bit less concerned about the scholarship brag. I'm honestly not sure why.]
Anyway, an Ivy athlete's aid is not tied to his/her athletic performance--or even athletic participation. No one feels obliged to stay on the team, potentially poisoning the atmosphere, just to retain a scholarship--you're gonna keep your money, regardless. Maybe that contributes to a more pleasant experience for all the athletes. And coaches.
Good story... I never thought I would ever run in college. I went to a low level D1 school, strictly for academics. Early freshman year, I happened to meet the xc coaches at an event and they encouraged me to walk on. I ended up running all four years, leading the team my Junior and Senior. The spring of my Junior year, leading into my Senior year, I realized that I wasn't going to have enough money to make it to graduation without getting another job or loan (I did not want to do either to jeopardize my running or grades). So, I asked the coaches if they had any scholarship money available. They were shocked. They had thought the whole time I was on a full academic scholarship. They asked me how much I needed. I told them a number and was notified the next day by the financial office of the athletic scholarship for that amount. There are some good coaches out there. At least at the lower D1 level that I experienced.
Short version:
Daughter was not top ranked nationally, but was decent and so recruited by many schools. She eventually took a 1/2 athletic scholarship at a big ten school. She was injured the first year, but the coach kept his word which was something like: "If a runner tries hard and remains committed, a scholarship will never be reduced." She loved being on the team, but was frustrated that she only improved slightly on her high school times through out her career and only made it to NCAA regionals once - barely. The coach honored his word 100% and supported 1/2 her whole college career.
So.... Some coaches do keep their word.
I was a modest high school runner. 4:24,9:38, with good test scores. My coach (mid-major D1) offered to cover whatever academic didn't, which was $3000+books.
Fast forward to year 3 I tore my Plantar Fascia. Spent 6 months in a boot and headed into year 4, hadn't ran in 6 months, and was kept on my scholarship, albeit small. That 4th year I had a stress fracture trying to rush back. Anyways, I went in to coaches office after my 4th year and told him I've had my fill and I wanted to focus on my studies. He wouldn't let me leave the office without signing my scholarship. He just gave me the $. He also left me on the roster and I got to participate in all the Athletic Dept events for graduating seniors. I'll be forever grateful.
I was never that good. Scored a point in the outdoor 10k, was the 3rd man and 4th man on 2 cross teams.