Has U.S. Anti-Doping Agency dropped the Oregon Project investigation w/ Alberto Salazar?

Libel for what?

Sleazy doping his little kid to find out how much dope he can give to elfie.

Sleazy mailing PEDs in hollowed out books.

Sleazy taking hot samples to the Mayo Clinic.

Sleazy doping the hypogonadic 15yo elfie rupp with T.

Sleazy giving everybody elfie's thyroid meds.

Sleazy signing up elfie for 37 TUEs.

Mo repeatedly cowering in his closet while the testers bang on his door.

Cam and his "asthma".

Hasay and her beet juice.

Rowbury and her roid rage.

Centro and his chacne.

Let it go, Weldon. You tried and failed. Be a man about it.

They're Filthy wrote:

Sleazy doping his little kid to find out how much dope he can give to elfie.

Sleazy mailing PEDs in hollowed out books.

Sleazy taking hot samples to the Mayo Clinic.

Sleazy doping the hypogonadic 15yo elfie rupp with T.

Sleazy giving everybody elfie's thyroid meds.

Sleazy signing up elfie for 37 TUEs.

Mo repeatedly cowering in his closet while the testers bang on his door.

Cam and his "asthma".

Hasay and her beet juice.

Rowbury and her roid rage.

Centro and his chacne.

Stop being a fanboy, Eric Lindsey (Proof? / A Duck). Accept that NOPers are dirty and the evidence is being collected to put them out of business. Be a man and accept reality.

Proof? wrote:

Let it go, Weldon. You tried and failed. Be a man about it.

They're Filthy wrote:

Sleazy doping his little kid to find out how much dope he can give to elfie.

Sleazy mailing PEDs in hollowed out books.

Sleazy taking hot samples to the Mayo Clinic.

Sleazy doping the hypogonadic 15yo elfie rupp with T.

Sleazy giving everybody elfie's thyroid meds.

Sleazy signing up elfie for 37 TUEs.

Mo repeatedly cowering in his closet while the testers bang on his door.

Cam and his "asthma".

Hasay and her beet juice.

Rowbury and her roid rage.

Centro and his chacne.

How can that possibly be Weldon? Are there any misspelled words or dimwitted grammar errors?

Proof? wrote:

Let it go, Weldon. You tried and failed. Be a man about it.

They're Filthy wrote:

Sleazy doping his little kid to find out how much dope he can give to elfie.

Sleazy mailing PEDs in hollowed out books.

Sleazy taking hot samples to the Mayo Clinic.

Sleazy doping the hypogonadic 15yo elfie rupp with T.

Sleazy giving everybody elfie's thyroid meds.

Sleazy signing up elfie for 37 TUEs.

Mo repeatedly cowering in his closet while the testers bang on his door.

Cam and his "asthma".

Hasay and her beet juice.

Rowbury and her roid rage.

Centro and his chacne.

Haven't all of these points been proven?

centrifugal fracture wrote:

Libel for what?

You're responding to a hardcore NOP fan who accepts grey-zone drug use because his running heroes can be superheroes. He doesn't want to know the truth.

Al admitted that he experimented on his son.

Al admitted that he sent drugs through the mail in a hollowed out book.

Al admitted that he rushed samples to the Mayo Clinic to see if they were hot.

Al had the papers showing that Rupp was on testosterone.

Al gave the thyroid meds to Kara.

Rupp has an extraordinarily high number of TUEs.

Mo did duck the testers.

Cam admitted that he suddenly needs asthma PEDs.

Hasay says that she takes beet juice.

Rowbury does have a lot of rage.

Centro does have chacne.

Yep, pretty much spot on.

Thanks for the post.

Next time you get a chance, can you ask the following:

1. What is the protocol for seeking guidance on things like the testosterone test? Apparently AlSal did that but how did USADA / USATF react? The test is the biggest concern to come out of the whole event. Actually, since Salazar described the test publicly they probably can comment on it and their role, if any.

2. The case may never be closed but is there anything preventing Kara Goucher from describing the additional information that described during her 'justice is coming' statement? I think it would be great to hear what that is. If Rojo is going to ask Galen about her comments at the post event press conference, then I think he can press Kara for details if there is nothing to stop her from sharing.

And yet none of that is illegal.

I think the 'Nike Lawyers argument' is being used as a big catch all for any instance when there are no details left to argue. Yes, Nike has resources that probably give their athletes an advantage but it is not like high profile Nike athletes have never been banned.Gatlin, Jones, and Gay are way bigger names than all NOP runners combined ever will be. There are limits to what Nike can do. The best argument is that someone like Gay got a great deal from USATF but he was still busted and has a stained reputation. I don't want to see him or Gatline on any US teams anymore.

Undropped wrote:

** So yes, it is entirely plausible that they have quietly dropped the case. **

They never drop a case. That is how their system works. They keep accumulating data (test samples), and legally battling.

It is very likely that high-priced lawyers were involved with any NOP investigation. Anything that happens being legally closed doors--NOP threats of lawsuits if investigation information is released--will remain unknown. NOP will not just sit their and take their punishment. They will fight back with a lot of money because the money at stake is huge--NOP team run winnings and sponsor endorsements.

Without rehashing dozens of other threads, most accusations are wild speculation ("rage," acne, etc.), "grey area" issues (asthma and thyroid medication, TUEs), or weirdness that is not prohibited by doping rules (pills in magazines). These things may raise suspicions or be "against the spirit of the sport," but they aren't literal doping violations. You can't penalize someone over suspicions or because you think that actions that don't actually violate any rule are "against the spirit of the sport."

As for the document saying that Rupp was on testosterone, Salazar has an explanation for why the document is mistaken, and since the doctor involved is dead, probably not much can be proved one way or the other without some sort of corroborating evidence.

Out of all of this, however, I cannot see how USADA or USATF can say that it is acceptable for the coach of a training program to experiment with how much testosterone gel can be applied to someone before triggering a positive test. Salazar admits he did this, but he claims that his motives were pure. Whatever someone says his motives are, for the coach of a training program to conduct experiments to learn how much of a PED can be applied without triggering a positive test should be a violation of doping rules.

I would at least like to see something from USADA saying whether these kinds of experiments are permissible or not, because if they are permissible, you might expect to see lots of training programs running their own "experiments" to learn what will trigger a positive test.

It's Prescription Pain Killers that's in vouge these days.

I actually completely agree with your post, but I just want to clarify that Gay was an adidas athlete when he tested positive, was subsequently dropped, and then signed by Nike.

John Miller, DT publicist wrote:

Thanks for the post.

Next time you get a chance, can you ask the following:

1. What is the protocol for seeking guidance on things like the testosterone test? Apparently AlSal did that but how did USADA / USATF react? The test is the biggest concern to come out of the whole event. Actually, since Salazar described the test publicly they probably can comment on it and their role, if any.

2. The case may never be closed but is there anything preventing Kara Goucher from describing the additional information that described during her 'justice is coming' statement? I think it would be great to hear what that is. If Rojo is going to ask Galen about her comments at the post event press conference, then I think he can press Kara for details if there is nothing to stop her from sharing.

I'm totally speculating, but The Code is pretty specific in how it applies, and for whom.

Possession is not an issue for a non-athlete. It may be a public stink, and a police concern, but not a concern for the governing bodies.

Cycling soingeurs have been caught at border crossings with PEDs with no consequence to the team's or athletes' eligibility. Asafa Powells coach (if I remember correctly) was caught in Italy with hundreds of medications with no consequence to the his athletes (they were banned for their positive tests).

The rules regarding coaches have changed, but the change is a prohibition on associating with individuals who are serving a sanction. Visiting an anti-aging doctor, for example, is completely okay in the eyes of The Code, regardless of how much that doctor pumps out testosterone or other hormones to other patients. (This new rule hasn't played out well, evidenced by photos of Dr. Ferrari at a cycling team's training camp, or the Virginia throws coach issue, or current riders training with Lance Armstrong, or current runners training with Hamza Driouch...)

(One strand of thought many had from the Salazar case was to pursue legal action for the various ways he used or misused prescriptions and shipped medication. I didn't know enough about these areas to look into it, so I'm no help there.)

John Miller, DT publicist wrote:

I think the 'Nike Lawyers argument' is being used as a big catch all for any instance when there are no details left to argue.

Nike doesn't own NOP. Salazar owns it. It is the Oregon Project with an agreement to use Nike in the name.

As a fan, I get what you are saying, but that's not how these investigations work. Sometimes, it takes years for prosecutors to file chargest. Let's say they did an investigation, found some troubling stuff but not enough for a coviction. They don't say, "We are not going to be filing charges. They simply say 'it's an ongoing investigation.'

But as a fan, i feel your pain. But pragmatically what are you hoping for? A staement like, "We've looked into the matters raised by the BBC / Pro Publica report and continue to do so as our investigation is ongoing. That being said, we don't anticipate filing any charges in the Olympic year."

Would that suffice? It's likely hard to say stuff that might not result in a lawsuit .

Now let me address a few of your points 1 by 1.

Please tell me where they were convicted by media reports.

There is a connection. Armstrong went to Salazar for coaching advice.

Taking testosterone in high school would be a rules violation (albeit past the state of limitations). I've had others say that one could argue that Salazar giving his sons testosterone was by itself a rules violation.

rojo wrote:

CuriousOne wrote:

Some tried to draw a connection between the Oregon Project and disgraced cyclist Lance Armstrong.

There is a connection. Armstrong went to Salazar for coaching advice.

It was more than coaching advice.

Lance Armstrong’s Coach [Salazar]: He Wants To Win An Ironman

Lance Armstrong Turns To Legendary Running Coach [Salazar] For Ironman Advice

Wonder what they talked about