8th grade girl runs 4:51 mile

Ultra Gal wrote:

r they taking EPO this young nowadays?

Only in China.

non-californian...

interesting name. where are you from then?

>>>>>But to me, this girl is unlike any we've seen in our country since Mary Decker.

..............................................

Aern't they all. Lot of people think they see a "special", but in almost every case none of them turn, out. You have to ask why. How long ago was Mary Decker? How many child phenoms have gone on since then?

quote "16:44 can be a winning time in the boys freshman race at NE xc championships." ....being a person who has run that course many times and knowing that you clearly havent. The hills are much too demanding for a girl no matter how good she is at that age to run that time and win. Odds are she ran that time on a track or a very fast course.

Huh? wrote:

Quote: ".... Yes, there have been a lot of flashes that didn't pan out but the flip side is that the great ones (Decker, Favor, Jennings, Jacobs) ...."

These are the great ones? Someone please pick out the mentally stable/normal/well-adjusted one from this select group of head cases and drug cheats.

The price one pays for being defined as "great" is pathetic.

decker, favor, jennnngs and jacobs were the way they were because that's the way they were. running didn't MAKE them that way. They would have been "head cases" no matter what they did.

Favor- headcase. Jacobs- drug enhanced. Decker-head case. Jennings- pretty normal. What's the point?

Now we have Jordan Hasay. She is real good. But we have no idea what she will do at age 15. So whats the point?

Check back in a few years.

Having coached age-group track, high school, and well beyond, my experience is that many age-group phenoms, especially girls, tend to peak in about 8th grade. I coached a girl who ran 4:51 (1500) in 8th grade, even though we didn't work that hard. Still, she didn't beat that mark until her junior year in college.

Two issues tend to recur -- boys and hips. Plus many of these kids burn out (often, they're doing too much speedwork, in my opinion). Few of them end up running beyond high school.

I hope this girl is for real, and I hope she has run that fast on talent and aerobic conditioning.

Oops, one more thing. I hope she's enjoying the sport.

I know Jordan fairly well, she stops by the shop regularly, plus she works out on the track the same time we do during the spring. I know her coach well - he's in the Aggies and lives nearby. His Roo Rat program feeds Morro Bay HS primarily and he's developed quite a few local stars. Hesch's little sister ran for him, same for Bryan Rayburn who ran 4:14 for the 1600 at Morro Bay, same for Sergio Reyes little sisters who ran well at Cuesta College. He has experience developing this level of athlete and understands that the future is where she will make her mark.

Here are some (hopefully) unbiased opinions.

1. She trains using faster paces consistently, but not what I would consider in volumes or paces that are extreme. Recovery intervals are liberal and always complete seeing as the training group she's with are a bunch of goofy 6th, 7th and 8th graders that get into throwing things at each other between the hard efforts. I never see her finish workouts with her hands on her knees, she's always in control and waits patiently for the rest of the group to get on the line to start the next interval. The workouts follow the general pattern of one at race pace, the next at slower than race pace and the third at faster than race pace with race pace being roughly 3k/5k pace. She trains harder 2 days a week on the track or Xc course and from what I can tell, a race on the weekend counts as a hard workout. Not sure what she does away from the track, but her coach Jim says it's pretty light, shorter runs and not every day of the week.

2. She does lots of swimming. She's in the pool occassionally at the same time as Linda Somers Smith and from what Linda says, this is where she hammers. Lots of laps at solid efforts.

3. Her family and coach are very, very low key. No pressure from what I can see, just doing what good parents are supposed to do, be supportive. She runs because it appears that she sincerely likes to do it, not because someone is yelling at her to do it.

4. Mom is fit and naturally thin, Dad is fit as well. Both lead an active lifestyle.

5. Jordan is a straight A student. Intelligent, polite, shy but not overly so. Likes to talk about other's accomplishments instead of her own. We have open enrollment for HS, she said she is going to a school based on what she and her family feel is best for her eductation, not athletics.

Having been around and read about young distance prodigies I can tell you this young lady does not fall into the stereotypes associated with most top athlete's her age. She's undertrained and her support group is just that - supportive and definitely not pushy or demanding.

Of course boys and puberty will come along but seeing where she is right now (and I'm not the only local cvoach/athlete who shares this opinion), she is very, very talented and has the right temperament and people around her to get much better. She is training at an appropriate level for an athlete of her age. She's good because - well she's good, not because she's training like a post collegiate Olympian wanna be.

Once she starts focusing a little more attention on being a middle distance runner, she should drop quite a bit in her mile time. Most of the 16:30 5k runners I know could run faster than a 4:51 mile in most cases, particularly a HS age kid. This should be a clue to the fact she is coming from an aerobic background and not a speed one. Her swimming should be extremely helpful in her long term development, kinda like Webb.

For what it's worth I like Jordan and the people who are around her. I hope she fullfills her promise. From where I'm sitting, she does not appear to have even scratched the surface of what she is capable of running.

Joe

I don't have an issue with her, her coaches, or her family. It sounds like they've got it all well under control.

I do have an issue with all the publicity she's getting. Yeah, she has some very remarkable accomplishments and it's nice to celebrate what she's achieved. But the very fact that she gets the publicity puts her and her support network under a microscope and sets everyone up for unrealistic expectations (which can be managed by loving support from all those around her, but this isn't making it easy).

Personally I think Dyestat should have a moratorium on putting news about pre-highschoolers on their site. Sure news will get out and the boards will buzz, but get rid of the front page headlines (and pictures which love to be cruelly pounced upon as so illustrated by this thread). It's hard enough for the top high schoolers to survive being under a microscope for 4 years - starting before high school is just too much!

Don't get excited about her performance until you know what kind of training she is doing. Is she running high mileage? More than an 8th grader should be?

How many young kids run great at 12 and no better at 21 when it really counts.

I didn't break 5min until my junior year of HS. Let's see... I went 8:30something in 7th grade, 7:40 in 8th grade, 5:45 in 9th (I started running), 5:11 in 10th, 4:42 in 11th and 4:40 in 12th (coached myself, horrible job)

Where is "Butt" on this topic? I can't believe he is not on here bashing how she "may" burnout. But in all honesty congrats to Jordan Hasay!!! Keep up the great work!!! It is obvious that Butt has an affiliation with Aislynn or is a Bayshore fan because he only brings down the great Saratoga Program. I believe though that Jordan has a bright future coming for her! I believe she will make in impact all throughout her life in running. It is not yet determined or anything but to me she will be something!

1. Body change. This will happen, and when it does, what will she do to deal with it?

2. Publicity. Obviously already a problem. How much more website attention will she garner. A ton from Dyestatcal obviously. Pressure mounts, especially when everyone will keep expecting great things from her.

3. Parents wanting attention. A problem because it is her father sending dyestatcal her race reports. His email to the website was originally put on the front page the day of her race.

You'll get a lot of girls who run very fast up until their sophomore year, because they weigh so little and have incredible aerobic power to weight ratios. But then the estrogen starts kicking in and they grow up. Unless you're doing a signficant volume of aerobic activity while this happens, all the added tissue will have far fewer capilaries than are ideal and they end up carrying a backpack and slow down.

That and/or they get fried on too much intensity too soon. Not trying to be negative -- I hope this girl runs well the rest of her life.

Exact same as my coaching experience. I have said before that any athletic girl can run fast at a young age with minimum training and good nutrition. Especially swimmers, who build a huge aerobic base at a young age. But show me the girl when she's 16. And show me her parents. I can usually predict from parent profiling how big the girl will be. If a girl is destined to be 120lbs or more, she'll never be a real fast 5K runner (under 16). She might still be a good 1500m runner. 800m and below is a different type of athlete altogether.

Most girls slow down. Every now and then you come across a small, athletic girl from relatively small parents who's running pretty well at 12 or 13 years old. They're the ones to watch, even if they only run a 6:00 mile at that point.

This Hasay girl may turn out to be something special. I have my doubts that she's turning those times on no speedwork, however. But no parent should wish to have a daughter running that fast at that age. The girl will inevitably feel pressure to get even faster and when she can't and other girls start catching up she'll be hard pressed to keep from becoming demoralized.

Every girl has one childhood, and sports should be fun at that age.

She'll probably run hot until she's 16-17 and then burn out. Been there done that. It happens all the time.

"If a girl is destined to be 120lbs or more, she'll never be a real fast 5K runner (under 16)"

So you're saying someone who weighs over 120 can run a good 5k?? Bull... and you all wonder why giels become anorexic??

**can't**

That was supposed to say can't run a good 5k, not can (before you all jump on me)