casual observations wrote:
Jon Orange wrote:what?
This is why you struggle understanding how EPO enhances performance. Poor comprehension.
You have no idea what my point is in the debate do you? So who are you to tell me about comprehension.
Here's a starter; If having more red blood cells is such an advantage, then why doesn't the body just produce more?
I know, it's too painful for you to think about, makes your head hurt. Easier to believe in dope that in yourself.
It does produce more, when subjected the proper stressors of trainng and altitude. Blood doping and EPO allow you to short-circuit that by getting the increased without the stress. That is why it is considered cheating.you
Jon Orange wrote:
casual observations wrote:This is why you struggle understanding how EPO enhances performance. Poor comprehension.
You have no idea what my point is in the debate do you? So who are you to tell me about comprehension.
Here's a starter; If having more red blood cells is such an advantage, then why doesn't the body just produce more?
I know, it's too painful for you to think about, makes your head hurt. Easier to believe in dope that in yourself.
Jon Orange wrote:
casual observations wrote:This is why you struggle understanding how EPO enhances performance. Poor comprehension.
You have no idea what my point is in the debate do you? So who are you to tell me about comprehension.
Here's a starter; If having more red blood cells is such an advantage, then why doesn't the body just produce more?
I know, it's too painful for you to think about, makes your head hurt. Easier to believe in dope that in yourself.
I have never heard you say this before. And I've been stalking you.
Last Word wrote:
It does produce more, when subjected the proper stressors of trainng and altitude. Blood doping and EPO allow you to short-circuit that by getting the increased without the stress. That is why it is considered cheating.you
Jon Orange wrote:You have no idea what my point is in the debate do you? So who are you to tell me about comprehension.
Here's a starter; If having more red blood cells is such an advantage, then why doesn't the body just produce more?
I know, it's too painful for you to think about, makes your head hurt. Easier to believe in dope that in yourself.
Altitude doesn't increase RBC count. That was the popular belief in the 90s, which has been discredited. What was not taken into account was the rise in hematocrit at altitude was actually due to a reduction in plasma volume.
You see, they couldn't even get the basic physiology right. All part of the stupid obsession with hematocrit.
So do you want good science or bad science? Which do you think most people believe?
Jon Orange wrote:
casual observations wrote:This is why you struggle understanding how EPO enhances performance. Poor comprehension.
You have no idea what my point is in the debate do you? So who are you to tell me about comprehension.
Here's a starter; If having more red blood cells is such an advantage, then why doesn't the body just produce more?
I know, it's too painful for you to think about, makes your head hurt. Easier to believe in dope that in yourself.
Genetics. The body does all it can and then dope is needed to override those limitations.
Think of rbcs like melanin. Wouldn't your body just love to become as dark as an African if you moved to the tropics?
They could probably make a drug to induce that.
please don't coach wrote:
thejeff wrote:Thanks for the input, gang.
FWIW, I AM 200 lbs, and my goal pace IS 7:30... so, you are both right?
I get the idea about this causing fatigue somewhere else... I can picture my shins getting charlie horses pretty quickly, especially early on.
hey "please don't coach"... it is a little creepy when you know so much about me... get a registered username, bruh :-)
sincere thanks to you both, again.
You love to talk about yourself and you mentioned that you are a clyde. That isn't hard to remember.
I also know you are a jesus freak and would kill your son if a voice told you to.
Now who is creepy?
Yes thejeff loves to talk about himself and thinks he is a fantastic poster.
Not very humble for a Christian.
He also constantly talks about ridiculous tricks to run faster instead of running more and doing instead of talking.
Also, he once admitted that he was trying to gain weight to medal in the clydesdale group. Pathetic.
Bad Wigins wrote:
I don't believe dorsiflexed preloading is real. Sprinters dorsiflex in the air but always plantar flex well before footstrike, re-shortening the calf muscles which are then re-lengthened during the footstrike before snapping back and re-shortening. If anything preloads them for that it should be the plantar flexion.
I think the real reasons it works, which it does work, is to shorten the lever arm of the lower leg allowing for higher cadence, and to allow the upper gastrocnemius to contribute to flexion at the knee.
The gastro is biarticulate, crossing both knee and ankle. Muscles apply more force when longer, so when biarticulate muscles flex at one joint, they typically extend at the other joint to compensate and maintain power.
When the recovering leg swings forward and extends before striking the ground, that lengthens the upper gastrocnemius, freeing up the lower part to contract again. Likewise with the hamstrings, which simultaneously extend at the knee and contract at the hip, while the rectus femoris extends at the hip and contracts at the knee. Overall these muscles kind of oscillate like a wave in a slinky.
Another convoluted answer that does not answer the question.
Likes to show off. Knows nothing.
Stick to massage buddy.
Gene Summons wrote:
Jon Orange wrote:You have no idea what my point is in the debate do you? So who are you to tell me about comprehension.
Here's a starter; If having more red blood cells is such an advantage, then why doesn't the body just produce more?
I know, it's too painful for you to think about, makes your head hurt. Easier to believe in dope that in yourself.
Genetics. The body does all it can and then dope is needed to override those limitations.
Think of rbcs like melanin. Wouldn't your body just love to become as dark as an African if you moved to the tropics?
They could probably make a drug to induce that.
It doesn't work like that with oxygen delivery. Having more RBCs is not an advantage. Think about it. If you were using more oxygen, you would be using more glycogen and producing more heat. This is not homeostatically possible.
This is not what actually happens. Runners and cyclists using EPO/transfusions are not using more oxygen.
Why does no-one on this here website understand the concept of bio-mechanical efficiency? Why is that not discussed. Why, just why?
How can so many people not grasp this basic concept? It's just weird.
Jon Orange wrote:
It doesn't work like that with oxygen delivery. Having more RBCs is not an advantage. Think about it. If you were using more oxygen, you would be using more glycogen and producing more heat. This is not homeostatically possible.
This is not what actually happens. Runners and cyclists using EPO/transfusions are not using more oxygen.
Why does no-one on this here website understand the concept of bio-mechanical efficiency? Why is that not discussed. Why, just why?
How can so many people not grasp this basic concept? It's just weird.
I know. People are so easily lead -they also think the earth is round. Fools. This is why people with the lowest Vo2max values are more athletically gifted and can achieve more. Being able to consume more oxygen is detrimental to athletic performance. Truly gifted athletes use the least amount of oxygen, burn the least amount of glycogen (and fatty acids, if you believe in fatty acids, I don't, I've never met a triglyceride in person) - they stay cool and fast and never use up their energy stores. Ever. Which is actually the most beneficial on a flat earth. But not on a theoretical round earth. On a round earth the math changes along with all other improbabilities. Rounders and their science. So foolish. They also think you need vaccinations - like your body wouldn't cure itself if that wasn't the most beneficial thing for it. So dumb. Rounders die because they let themselves die, it's due to their misguided beliefs and weak wills.
Jon Orange wrote:
Gene Summons wrote:Genetics. The body does all it can and then dope is needed to override those limitations.
Think of rbcs like melanin. Wouldn't your body just love to become as dark as an African if you moved to the tropics?
They could probably make a drug to induce that.
It doesn't work like that with oxygen delivery. Having more RBCs is not an advantage. Think about it. If you were using more oxygen, you would be using more glycogen and producing more heat. This is not homeostatically possible.
This is not what actually happens. Runners and cyclists using EPO/transfusions are not using more oxygen.
Why does no-one on this here website understand the concept of bio-mechanical efficiency? Why is that not discussed. Why, just why?
How can so many people not grasp this basic concept? It's just weird.
So blood doping must increase biomechanical efficiency? I thought nothing except practice did that?
People on here discuss biomechanical efficiency AL THE TIME. Strides, hill sprints, downhill running? Hello?
The rest of what you wrote is bunk. When you run hard you use fuel and get hot. Do you not see athletes getting all sweaty and chugging drinks?
If you can't post something intelligent, then don't bother posting at all.
You can't discuss these things because you don't have the knowledge or interest. Stop pretending that you have some great insight. I'm asking for serious debate, not childish crap.
If you don't understand the concept of bio-mechanical efficiency and you don't want to learn it, then stay ignorant and keep believing in your drug folklore. It's easier that way isn't it?
Gene Summons wrote:
Jon Orange wrote:It doesn't work like that with oxygen delivery. Having more RBCs is not an advantage. Think about it. If you were using more oxygen, you would be using more glycogen and producing more heat. This is not homeostatically possible.
This is not what actually happens. Runners and cyclists using EPO/transfusions are not using more oxygen.
Why does no-one on this here website understand the concept of bio-mechanical efficiency? Why is that not discussed. Why, just why?
How can so many people not grasp this basic concept? It's just weird.
So blood doping must increase biomechanical efficiency? I thought nothing except practice did that?
People on here discuss biomechanical efficiency AL THE TIME. Strides, hill sprints, downhill running? Hello?
The rest of what you wrote is bunk. When you run hard you use fuel and get hot. Do you not see athletes getting all sweaty and chugging drinks?
You're avoiding the issue. How does blood doping increase biomechanical efficiency? It doesn't. How could that possibly happen.
And why can't you understand that there is a limit to how much heat we can produce? And how much glycogen we use? It's controlled homeostatically.
You can't see how dogmatic your opinions are and you can't accept them being challenged. Look up homeostasis and educate yourself. And dont' preach to me about genetics or VO2 max when you don't even understand that those athletes with the highest VO2 max have the lowest oxygen economy.
keeping it low wrote:
Jon Orange wrote:It doesn't work like that with oxygen delivery. Having more RBCs is not an advantage. Think about it. If you were using more oxygen, you would be using more glycogen and producing more heat. This is not homeostatically possible.
This is not what actually happens. Runners and cyclists using EPO/transfusions are not using more oxygen.
Why does no-one on this here website understand the concept of bio-mechanical efficiency? Why is that not discussed. Why, just why?
How can so many people not grasp this basic concept? It's just weird.
I know. People are so easily lead -they also think the earth is round. Fools. This is why people with the lowest Vo2max values are more athletically gifted and can achieve more. Being able to consume more oxygen is detrimental to athletic performance. Truly gifted athletes use the least amount of oxygen, burn the least amount of glycogen (and fatty acids, if you believe in fatty acids, I don't, I've never met a triglyceride in person) - they stay cool and fast and never use up their energy stores. Ever. Which is actually the most beneficial on a flat earth. But not on a theoretical round earth. On a round earth the math changes along with all other improbabilities. Rounders and their science. So foolish. They also think you need vaccinations - like your body wouldn't cure itself if that wasn't the most beneficial thing for it. So dumb. Rounders die because they let themselves die, it's due to their misguided beliefs and weak wills.
Lol!
Jon Orange wrote:
Gene Summons wrote:Genetics. The body does all it can and then dope is needed to override those limitations.
Think of rbcs like melanin. Wouldn't your body just love to become as dark as an African if you moved to the tropics?
They could probably make a drug to induce that.
It doesn't work like that with oxygen delivery. Having more RBCs is not an advantage. Think about it. If you were using more oxygen, you would be using more glycogen and producing more heat. This is not homeostatically possible.
This is not what actually happens. Runners and cyclists using EPO/transfusions are not using more oxygen.
Why does no-one on this here website understand the concept of bio-mechanical efficiency? Why is that not discussed. Why, just why?
How can so many people not grasp this basic concept? It's just weird.
Yeah brah!
I donated a grip of blood once and set a marathon pr 20 minutes later.
RBCS do NOTHING! It is so easy people!
Miss the point why don't you?
A healthy body produces the right amount of red blood cells. Understand?
Are there any intelligent posters out there who care about this stuff?
Jon Orange wrote:
Gene Summons wrote:So blood doping must increase biomechanical efficiency? I thought nothing except practice did that?
People on here discuss biomechanical efficiency AL THE TIME. Strides, hill sprints, downhill running? Hello?
The rest of what you wrote is bunk. When you run hard you use fuel and get hot. Do you not see athletes getting all sweaty and chugging drinks?
You're avoiding the issue. How does blood doping increase biomechanical efficiency? It doesn't. How could that possibly happen.
And why can't you understand that there is a limit to how much heat we can produce? And how much glycogen we use? It's controlled homeostatically.
You can't see how dogmatic your opinions are and you can't accept them being challenged. Look up homeostasis and educate yourself. And dont' preach to me about genetics or VO2 max when you don't even understand that those athletes with the highest VO2 max have the lowest oxygen economy.
You're the one saying it increases efficiency. Guys like Vino get a few pints extra a boom, the next day they win the TT.
Has to be efficiency, right?
Once again hard exercise is not a state of homeostasis. Not too hard to figure out.
Have you seen Geb and Tergat at the finish of Atlanta and Sydney?
That's not homeostasis.
Bad Wigins wrote:
I don't believe dorsiflexed preloading is real. Sprinters dorsiflex in the air but always plantar flex well before footstrike, re-shortening the calf muscles which are then re-lengthened during the footstrike before snapping back and re-shortening. If anything preloads them for that it should be the plantar flexion.
I think the real reasons it works, which it does work, is to shorten the lever arm of the lower leg allowing for higher cadence, and to allow the upper gastrocnemius to contribute to flexion at the knee.
The gastro is biarticulate, crossing both knee and ankle. Muscles apply more force when longer, so when biarticulate muscles flex at one joint, they typically extend at the other joint to compensate and maintain power.
When the recovering leg swings forward and extends before striking the ground, that lengthens the upper gastrocnemius, freeing up the lower part to contract again. Likewise with the hamstrings, which simultaneously extend at the knee and contract at the hip, while the rectus femoris extends at the hip and contracts at the knee. Overall these muscles kind of oscillate like a wave in a slinky.
These are the words of someone who took one undergrad biomech class and thinks he knows everything. Your post is so muddled that it's not even wrong. It's just confused.
Jon Orange wrote:
casual observations wrote:This is why you struggle understanding how EPO enhances performance. Poor comprehension.
Here's a starter; If having more red blood cells is such an advantage, then why doesn't the body just produce more?
I know, it's too painful for you to think about, makes your head hurt. Easier to believe in dope that in yourself.
Having more testosterone is an advantage. Why don't women's bodies just produce more?
Jon Orange wrote:
Miss the point why don't you?
A healthy body produces the right amount of red blood cells. Understand?
Are there any intelligent posters out there who care about this stuff?
OH YES!
I suspect that I am being trolled, in which case I commend you. But if not, can I tell you that you are brilliant?
A healthy body DOES produce the right amount of red blood cells to have a healthy body.
But it does not produce the right amount of red blood cells to win races.
Are you intelligent? Yes, you are the mostest.
[quote]Jon Orange wrote:
You can't discuss these things because you don't have the knowledge or interest. Stop pretending that you have some great insight. I'm asking for serious debate, not childish crap.
quote]
I have a PhD in neurophysiology. I ridicule you for the following reasons: (1)because I find you and your ilk to be offensive and deserving of ridicule; (2) there is nothing to debate, your point is ridiculous; and (3) I understand that with you and your ilk that "you can't cure stupid", (this is especially so when that "stupid" is an integral part of a story they invent to create a version of themselves/identity that allows them to hide their various deeply routed insecurities and fears), therefore I have no reasonable expectation that any amount of science and/or common sense would change your mind about anything, i.e., it would be a waste of my time to explain anything to you. In summary, I don't intend to waste my time explaining simple concepts to someone as stupid and self deluded as you are; it would be a frustrating endeavor to do anything other than enjoy myself by mocking your incredible stupidity.