Could there possibly be 82 Moroccan positives without El Guerrouj accounting for a large number of them?
Could there possibly be 82 Moroccan positives without El Guerrouj accounting for a large number of them?
Something smells fishy .........
ZERO Ethiopians on list is just not possibl
to obvious that list leaked on purpose
with massive agenda.
pushing the russia bad senario once again
seb coe has it in the bag and
If this is the lengths that iaaf go to
then doping only going to get worse...
wejo wrote:
They talked to Lisa Dobriskey at length and talked about how she was battling with 2 likely dopers without naming the person or the race. Dobriskey was never 3rd at a major championship but was 2nd at Worlds and 4th at the Olympics.
There are 12 British athletes on the list and how do you know that LD is not among them? It is not right to accuse some athletes and then to give others a free pass when the list of names has not been released. The list of names should be released as soon as possible to stop all this heresay and innuendo.
Why are they not testing British and Americans?
Impartial observer wrote:
wejo wrote:They talked to Lisa Dobriskey at length and talked about how she was battling with 2 likely dopers without naming the person or the race. Dobriskey was never 3rd at a major championship but was 2nd at Worlds and 4th at the Olympics.
There are 12 British athletes on the list and how do you know that LD is not among them? It is not right to accuse some athletes and then to give others a free pass when the list of names has not been released. The list of names should be released as soon as possible to stop all this heresay and innuendo.
Suspicious doesn't mean guilty. Even if most of those with suspicious values are guilty, and I don't doubt they are, if there's a single person named who had suspicious values and wasn't using illegal methods, their career will be wrongly ruined by naming them.
Assuming that the contracted testers were not given training schedules for every athlete, how does one know that abnormal values weren't the result of going to altitude? This would of course be known if individual cases were studied, but this net seems to be much broader, and therefore much coarser in this regard.
B-Sample wrote:
Assuming that the contracted testers were not given training schedules for every athlete, how does one know that abnormal values weren't the result of going to altitude? This would of course be known if individual cases were studied, but this net seems to be much broader, and therefore much coarser in this regard.
Michael Ashenden knows what he's talking about (google him) and will be well aware of the effects of altitude training on blood parameters
Amerikano wrote:
Wow - Russia and Ukraine really really distort the drug bust numbers. They are 60% of the suspicious athletes.
Actually, if you take those two outliers out, you'd have less than 8% athletes out of 5000 suspicious. That's actually quite low.
if true, that is very cool
but yeah - where's ethiopia? Are they just not tested?
wejo wrote:
The paper also talks about "Off-scores" and its a measure of whether the blood values are natural. It talks abut 1/10000 chances and 1/100,000 chances. I think at that level we should be sanctioning athletes unless it means 1/10000 athletes can have blood values like that.
I think that's the problem here. 1/10000 means that the chance that athlete doped is 99.99%. If you have 10,000 athletes in your testing pool then it is pretty much expected that you'd have one of these guys. So no, it is not enough to ban this one guy, when looked at him individually.
The problem is, we got 10,000 atheletes in the pool and 3,000 of them have such values.
So in conclusion: there is enough evidence to claim that more than 30% are doping but there is not enough evidence for any single one of them to ban them.
Amerikano wrote:
Actually, if you take those two outliers out, you'd have less than 8% athletes out of 5000 suspicious. That's actually quite low.
Keep in mind their threshold was 1/10,000 of being clean. If you set your level for suspicion lower, I bet you'd end up with a much higher percentage.
agip wrote:
Amerikano wrote:Wow - Russia and Ukraine really really distort the drug bust numbers. They are 60% of the suspicious athletes.
Actually, if you take those two outliers out, you'd have less than 8% athletes out of 5000 suspicious. That's actually quite low.
if true, that is very cool
but yeah - where's ethiopia? Are they just not tested?
Ethiopians get tested at WCs and Olympics, Their complete absence from this list is strange.
Just getting up to speed on this article, but it also stood out to me that Ethiopia is not on the list. Was trying to think of any Ethiopians who have been busted, and I cannot recall any. Does anyone know of any?
Also surprised Algeria is not listed; I always thought they were about as dirty as Morocco.
They aren't even listed...Is anyone familiar with their anti-doping protocol?
Haile and Kenny are still the greatest!
It is interesting that Ethiopia is not on the list. It could mean that either the Ethiopians had their ducks in a row, completed clean, or this was an incomplete breakdown.
The German's somewhat single-out the Kenyan number as if the Spanish, Morrocans, Ukrainians don't matter.
Also, they put Russia and Kenya together in their findings, yet Russia has 415 and Kenya only has 77.
The size of the country won't matter here because all teams submit similar rosters. Russia may send a more full-team, but still, it shouldn't be that high.
Like I said in an earlier post, one country pretty much breaks the bank here, while the other countries need to monitor their athletes better.
When you break down the statistics, take out the dopers from Russia/Ukraine, then the rest of the world was at 6% suspicious blood values out of the ~4500 tested athletes.
I am not defending Kenya here, but there seems to be targeted allegations from statistics that don't tell a full story. They are being pushed onto media with headlines that put out one specific country.
The real headline:
Russia & Ukraine bomb at IAAF biological passport test. Spain, Morocco, and Kenya follow with significant numbers.
Amerikano wrote:
The real headline:
Russia & Ukraine bomb at IAAF biological passport test. Spain, Morocco, and Kenya follow with significant numbers.
+1
Amerikano wrote:
Russia & Ukraine bomb at IAAF biological passport test. Spain, Morocco, and Kenya follow with significant numbers.
Well to be fair: Russia gives prior warning about doping tests to their athletes. Kenya doesn't perform any blood tests, so there is no surprise they don't test positive.
I'd imagine it's much harder to investigate in Spain or Morocco than in Kenya.
Hard to imagine you could obtain the bank account statements in those countries like he did for Kenya...
Singled out wrote:
Wejo, you mentioned IAAF panel results (which are clearly about Paula's blood values). If 11 of 12 experts claim her ridiculously high values could come from altitude training, then every athlete could use that same excuse, since Paula's values were so extreme. Interesting that you chose to note that.
When a lowlander trains at altitude, it messes with blood values so much the bio-passport is ineffective at detecting if it was doping or the effects of a transition to high altitude.
The simple answer is to do your EPO doping at an "altitude training camp." As long as you don't fail the IQ test, that is extremely unlikely to be run anyway, by poorly timing your EPO, you are "never tested positive."
The effects of EPO really kick in several days later well after any detectable artifacts of EPO are long gone in the in-competition urinalysis.
There are numerous holes in anti-doping like the "altitude training" trick.
Its clear that Russia is a state sponsor of doping( ha! almost wrote terrorism)
The two documentaries provided all the evidence that any sane person needed to come to a conclusion.
The Ethiopian runners that live and train in Ethiopia are clean. They are superior runners compared to the rest of the world. The Ethiopians will reclaim gold in both the men's and women's in the 5k and 10k at WC.---No gold for Mo Bot.