So the LetsRun articles from two weeks ago saying Leo wouldn't need the standard if he finished third have been proven incorrect by the USATF subsequently saying that they won't submit the name of anybody who doesn't have the standard?
So the LetsRun articles from two weeks ago saying Leo wouldn't need the standard if he finished third have been proven incorrect by the USATF subsequently saying that they won't submit the name of anybody who doesn't have the standard?
Here's the USATF language (and it's been posted on LRC in other places, I believe).
"In the event that one or more of the top three placers in the Trials has not met the qualifying standard but has a performance that appears to be good enough to warrant an invitation based on the ranking list and number of known qualifiers, USATF may solicit an invitation from the IAAF for that athlete(s) notwithstanding that other U.S. athletes have met the qualifying standard. The intent is that, to the extent possible, the order of finish at the U. S. Championships shall determine whether an athlete competes in the World Championships. There will be no invitations through the use of the ranking lists in the 5,000m, 10,000m, race walk and marathon."
Given this language I think the USATF will definitely solicit invitations based on the list and not the qualifying times. This would seem to mean that Gallagher and Johnson are going to World's, IF they are on the list, NOTWITHSTANDING the qualifying times of other US runners who finished behind them, and notwithstanding achievement of any other time qualification standard.
Except, it might be that for Gallagher to get in, supernumerary runners from the US, Ethiopia, Kenya, etc. (including Kampf and Moser) might have to be excluded from the list to get Gallagher at or inside the 45th position (which exclusion we have assumed would be the case). But, as well, the list, it would seem, is not finalized yet so we can't tell with absolute certainty because positions on the list might change before the cut off date. There is nothing that Kampf or Moser can do to affect this. But it might be useful for Gallagher in particular to try to improve her position before the cut off.
Based on the conflicting responses it still seems like we are not 100% sure what happens if the runners don't get the standard.
tdfryst wrote:
Based on the conflicting responses it still seems like we are not 100% sure what happens if the runners don't get the standard.
Depends on which athletes run for Nike.
alanson wrote:
Here's the USATF language (and it's been posted on LRC in other places, I believe).
"In the event that one or more of the top three placers in the Trials has not met the qualifying standard but has a performance that appears to be good enough to warrant an invitation based on the ranking list and number of known qualifiers, USATF may solicit an invitation from the IAAF for that athlete(s) notwithstanding that other U.S. athletes have met the qualifying standard. The intent is that, to the extent possible, the order of finish at the U. S. Championships shall determine whether an athlete competes in the World Championships. There will be no invitations through the use of the ranking lists in the 5,000m, 10,000m, race walk and marathon."
Given this language I think the USATF will definitely solicit invitations based on the list and not the qualifying times. This would seem to mean that Gallagher and Johnson are going to World's, IF they are on the list, NOTWITHSTANDING the qualifying times of other US runners who finished behind them, and notwithstanding achievement of any other time qualification standard.
Except, it might be that for Gallagher to get in, supernumerary runners from the US, Ethiopia, Kenya, etc. (including Kampf and Moser) might have to be excluded from the list to get Gallagher at or inside the 45th position (which exclusion we have assumed would be the case). But, as well, the list, it would seem, is not finalized yet so we can't tell with absolute certainty because positions on the list might change before the cut off date. There is nothing that Kampf or Moser can do to affect this. But it might be useful for Gallagher in particular to try to improve her position before the cut off.
This is the source we used to write our article a couple of weeks ago about U.S. athletes not needing the standard. While I was in Eugene, I spoke to a couple of other journalists who weren't sure whether that was correct so I spoke to Amanda Brooks of USATF about it. She said the standard takes precedent so if Gallagher/Johnson don't get the standard but would be in position to go on the IAAF list, they'd still get bumped by Kampf and Moser.
This is the email she sent:
"Athletes have until August 9 to chase the IAAF A Standard for their event. If they do not reach that mark/time by August 9, USATF will continue to move down the list of USATF Outdoor Championships finishers to select athletes who do have the IAAF A Standard.
To fill fields, the IAAF will select athletes from various countries from the top 48 performance list. However, if the U.S. already has three qualified athletes in a particular event, an American athlete will not be selected by the IAAF for that event."
As of now, that's what I'd go by -- meaning our original article was wrong.
But say Johnson doesn't have the standard and it's August 5. Right now she's easily in position to go on the IAAF list -- 45th is 4:12.09 and she's run 4:07.33. If I'm her agent, I'm going to USATF and calling them out on the language in their selection procedures on their site (which say that Johnson would get to go). I think it could get messy if someone raises a stink about it.
Thanks for the response, and I agree with you that they have opened themselves up (especially by saying "notwithstanding that other US athletes have met the qualifying standard") to another one of those idiotic controversies that seem to engulf the USATF rule makers every six months or so.
Jonathan Gault wrote:
alanson wrote:Here's the USATF language (and it's been posted on LRC in other places, I believe).
"In the event that one or more of the top three placers in the Trials has not met the qualifying standard but has a performance that appears to be good enough to warrant an invitation based on the ranking list and number of known qualifiers, USATF may solicit an invitation from the IAAF for that athlete(s) notwithstanding that other U.S. athletes have met the qualifying standard. The intent is that, to the extent possible, the order of finish at the U. S. Championships shall determine whether an athlete competes in the World Championships. There will be no invitations through the use of the ranking lists in the 5,000m, 10,000m, race walk and marathon."
Given this language I think the USATF will definitely solicit invitations based on the list and not the qualifying times. This would seem to mean that Gallagher and Johnson are going to World's, IF they are on the list, NOTWITHSTANDING the qualifying times of other US runners who finished behind them, and notwithstanding achievement of any other time qualification standard.
Except, it might be that for Gallagher to get in, supernumerary runners from the US, Ethiopia, Kenya, etc. (including Kampf and Moser) might have to be excluded from the list to get Gallagher at or inside the 45th position (which exclusion we have assumed would be the case). But, as well, the list, it would seem, is not finalized yet so we can't tell with absolute certainty because positions on the list might change before the cut off date. There is nothing that Kampf or Moser can do to affect this. But it might be useful for Gallagher in particular to try to improve her position before the cut off.
This is the source we used to write our article a couple of weeks ago about U.S. athletes not needing the standard. While I was in Eugene, I spoke to a couple of other journalists who weren't sure whether that was correct so I spoke to Amanda Brooks of USATF about it. She said the standard takes precedent so if Gallagher/Johnson don't get the standard but would be in position to go on the IAAF list, they'd still get bumped by Kampf and Moser.
This is the email she sent:
"Athletes have until August 9 to chase the IAAF A Standard for their event. If they do not reach that mark/time by August 9, USATF will continue to move down the list of USATF Outdoor Championships finishers to select athletes who do have the IAAF A Standard.
To fill fields, the IAAF will select athletes from various countries from the top 48 performance list. However, if the U.S. already has three qualified athletes in a particular event, an American athlete will not be selected by the IAAF for that event."
As of now, that's what I'd go by -- meaning our original article was wrong.
But say Johnson doesn't have the standard and it's August 5. Right now she's easily in position to go on the IAAF list -- 45th is 4:12.09 and she's run 4:07.33. If I'm her agent, I'm going to USATF and calling them out on the language in their selection procedures on their site (which say that Johnson would get to go). I think it could get messy if someone raises a stink about it.
bump
I heard of Lauren Johnson a few years ago. I thought she was from Indiana. I guess that I was right:
http://www.runnerspace.com/gprofile.php?do=view_athlete&mgroup_id=5&bio_id=907650&year=all
Just kept working hard and running faster.
vivalarepublica wrote:
I heard of Lauren Johnson a few years ago. I thought she was from Indiana. I guess that I was right:
http://www.runnerspace.com/gprofile.php?do=view_athlete&mgroup_id=5&bio_id=907650&year=allJust kept working hard and running faster.
Good grief, going into USATFs, she was 3/6 DNFs this season! WTF
those were pacing duties it seems (5ks and a steeple)
The "A" Standard for the 1500 is 4:06.50. Neither has it. The selection rule seems to imply that if they are in the world top 45, they are in anyway. Which they appear to be (perhaps by a narrow margin).
But LRC gurus are told verbally, they write, that the "A" Standard must be met (therefore the hullabaloo surrounding Robby Andrews meeting the "A").
So do these ladies need to also get the "A", and if they don't get the "A" will it be Moser and Kampf instead?
Honorable Discharge wrote:
vivalarepublica wrote:I heard of Lauren Johnson a few years ago. I thought she was from Indiana. I guess that I was right:
http://www.runnerspace.com/gprofile.php?do=view_athlete&mgroup_id=5&bio_id=907650&year=allJust kept working hard and running faster.
Good grief, going into USATFs, she was 3/6 DNFs this season! WTF
Lauren has been an excellent pacer for longer events the past couple of years, thus the dnfs. She is a hard worker who has overcome several injuries. She has great closing speed, so she can sit and kick if that is how the race develops. She is mentally strong, an ass kicker.
I've never heard of Lauren, but Kerri was a counselor at a running camp I went to last summer. Centrowitz Sr. ran the whole thing. She was an extremely kind person and I'm glad to see she's finally making a name for herself.
Kerri Gallagher tweeted that she's in Lignano, Italy. I'm assuming she's chasing the standard. Anyone have heat sheets and streaming info for tomorrow's meet?
Lignano entries/heat sheets not posted yet, but Flotrack is over there to cover the meet and has an interview with Kerri G. now posted.
Thanks.
LignoMan wrote:
Lignano entries/heat sheets not posted yet, but Flotrack is over there to cover the meet and has an interview with Kerri G. now posted.
Kerri FTW running 403.56. Crushed the standard and hopefully all the doubters #gokerri #fordham
Clock is ticking for Lauren Johnson - didn't make "A" today. Will she be bounced by USATF?
Jonathan Gault wrote:
This is the source we used to write our article a couple of weeks ago about U.S. athletes not needing the standard. While I was in Eugene, I spoke to a couple of other journalists who weren't sure whether that was correct so I spoke to Amanda Brooks of USATF about it. She said the standard takes precedent so if Gallagher/Johnson don't get the standard but would be in position to go on the IAAF list, they'd still get bumped by Kampf and Moser.
This is the email she sent:
"Athletes have until August 9 to chase the IAAF A Standard for their event. If they do not reach that mark/time by August 9, USATF will continue to move down the list of USATF Outdoor Championships finishers to select athletes who do have the IAAF A Standard.
To fill fields, the IAAF will select athletes from various countries from the top 48 performance list. However, if the U.S. already has three qualified athletes in a particular event, an American athlete will not be selected by the IAAF for that event."
As of now, that's what I'd go by -- meaning our original article was wrong.
But say Johnson doesn't have the standard and it's August 5. Right now she's easily in position to go on the IAAF list -- 45th is 4:12.09 and she's run 4:07.33. If I'm her agent, I'm going to USATF and calling them out on the language in their selection procedures on their site (which say that Johnson would get to go). I think it could get messy if someone raises a stink about it.
I can't believe these boobs can't write a qualifying procedure that doesn't require an attorney to decipher what it is that they are attempting to declare.
In this case what is so difficult about:
We're taking 3 in the finish order at the trials.
That means the first three with the qualifying standard.
If there aren't 3 with the standard we'll fill via IAAF invite of top 45 in the Trials finishing order.
Is it really that hard?
Kerri came a long way from Oxy to USA to '''Lignano, Italy'''
Oxy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mwPFJohyg4
USA:
Italy:
Good luck in China