I just got a text from a top HS coach: "Grant Fisher is not the best kid in Michigan." LetsRun, meet Donavan Brazier

I'm sure a lot of dudes had more hardware than Andrew Wheating.

That's the worst point ever when you are talking about talent. Go run a lap

Good post, rojo, I am excited about Brazier. When he ran that 1:48, he had run the SMR the day before in 1:48-high, by far the fastest split of the day and made up lots of ground. He was just hoping to break 1:50 in the open for the first time.

Rojo, thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize you were talking about a junior in college. Thought you were talking about a high schooler running the 1600.

I think breaking 4:00 is a bigger deal than 1:48 because aerobic development takes more time, and more of it is needed to break 4:00. Sub-1:48 is no joke, obviously, but takes a little bit less time to get there.

In the race where he ran that 1:48 he barely won too, which is crazy.

How many of these guys are running for Ron Warhurst's Copper Boy next year?

The answer is 0

FIsher- Stanford

Brazier- A&M

Wetzel- Nova

Nice going, Michigan.

notverynice IMO wrote:

How many of these guys are running for Ron Warhurst's Copper Boy next year?

The answer is 0

FIsher- Stanford

Brazier- A&M

Wetzel- Nova

Nice going, Michigan.

Rebuilding the university of Michigan's program will take time.

U of M's distance coach wasn't in place until late summer. These three talented runners were being recruited well before the U of M got their act together. Then came the U of M AD issues and Football program disruptions. The running programs and schools mentioned are excellent and have depth. Recruiting isn't easy especially when starting behind the eight ball. U of M will have to work harder and develop the talent they have before super talents like the three mentioned will jump on board.

Winstifred wrote:

Fisher has proven himself time and time again and yet people will still go on saying that some other kid is better even though they've done not nearly enough to warrant the claim. Just because he ran 1:48.61 as a junior and looks smooth when he runs? How is that even relevant to Fisher, who doesn't even compete in the 800? The excuses are nice too, "Never runs the mile. Tried to go after Fisher this weekend but not fit enough" It's real easy to say that kinda stuff when you can't exactly argue objectively with it. Brazier is no doubt immensely talented but Fisher is arguably one of the top talents to come out of U.S. prep distance running and this coach has the gall to say "talent level doesn't compare"? Sounds like a grade A d-bag to me.

Agreed, on all accounts.

lol what a load of crap, you know Grants on top when people try to pull stuff like this. Yea brazier is solid, but grant has already done many things to prove he is here to stay.

They should all 3 have went to Grand Valley.

Your thoughts?

Ya know rojo writes a post concerning an exciting bit of info on some amazing runners in Mich. HS. and for some reason, he is a racist, an ignorant fool, he is threatened and lectured! Two days ago, I'm on the track with our state champ, and between intervals he asks about Grant's race and time. I'm not gonna insert Grant's last name, cause I always get it wrong! I said yep 4:07 and two other guys were right on him at 4:09 and 4:10. My runner says I think they were college guys not HS. I said...I don't knowww.... So anyway, rojo's post is way interesting for us! The insane post above, as you read it, its like stepping in a pile of dog crap. Total insanity. Go post somewhere else, and save your lectures for men you are face to face with!

Some things:

1) I see no reason to knock Grant Fisher off of his perch. He has earned the distinction of the best HS distance runner in the country, and he just won that mile by more than 2 seconds. Other guys start beating him, THEN some talk can start.

2) Who gives a crap about his arm swing? No two runners have the same form, so whose to say one is worse than another.

3) Regarding fitness, silly to say that Brazier just wasn't fit enough to beat Fisher. If Fisher lost, would the dude in question have said that Fisher just wasn't fit enough to beat Brazier? Also, the fitness thing is somewhat of a bogus topic. Take two guys, let's say they have equal fitness. Do they tie? NO! One of them has more talent than the other. You could have a more-talented guy who is less fit beat a less-talented guy who is more fit. The fitness argument always assumes the runners in question are of equal talent.

4) Finally, odd to compare an 800 guy to a 1600 and up guy. Not the same race, not the same kind of runner for each.

I agree with Flagpole:

4) Finally, odd to compare an 800 guy to a 1600 and up guy. Not the same race, not the same kind of runner for each.

Also glad to hear that Rojo was out running.

I think people are just shocked that Rojo would fall for YAHOO headline-like click bait.

"Talent doesn't even compare!" Come on.

I was at the races this weekend, here are a few of my thoughts.

1. Braizer is super smooth. Have seen him race quite a few times and have always been impressed with his stride. It never looks like he is running hard or straining. I would think there is room for improvement due to that.

2. He was slightly gaining on Fisher at the start of the last lap(300m track), with about 150m to go Fisher kicked it into a completely different gear that no one else in the field had.

3. Wetzel is a stud and super fast, but I have never seen him win a race granted I don't coach in the South East part of the state so only see him in big meets like this. Most of us in Michigan are sick of his dad posting about him everywhere possible. We get it, your kid is fast, he ran fast as a freshmen, he got hurt.

4. I'd a agree a bit on Fisher's form. I remember thinking it seemed like he was a little stiff on Saturday and his left arm didn't seem to have full motion. Whatever it is seems to be working but I've never noticed it that much in watching him previously.

5. I have no idea of Braizer's mileage or how it compares to Fisher. I'd bet all 3 will be successful in High School. Sounds like original plan for him was to be a 400/800 guy at A&M but maybe if he keeps improving at the mile he'd do that too.

The Elite race was pretty sweet, Michigan clearly has some good distance runners both male and female at the moment. It was preceded by a fun Michigan VS Michigan State duel meet. MSU Ladies O'Connor 4:34 and Schulist 9:07 turned in some pretty solid performances completely by themselves.

Not sure what you guys are talking about...

Braizer looks smooth from the hips up but look at his feet on the straights (when he is coming towards the camera). You will see that his right leg crosses way over the center line of his body. That is a serious biomechanical problem and an injury waiting to happen.

checkthisout wrote:

Not sure what you guys are talking about...

Braizer looks smooth from the hips up but look at his feet on the straights (when he is coming towards the camera). You will see that his right leg crosses way over the center line of his body. That is a serious biomechanical problem and an injury waiting to happen.

Yeah I noticed that. Looks great from the side but pretty weird from head on.

It's indoor season... what's the big deal?

It is common knowledge that too much focus on indoor season negatively impacts outdoor season.

This was Fisher's first indoor race after a long and amazing cross country season... long and amazing track season... short and amazing indoor season... long and amazing cross country season... long and amazing track season - how far back does one have to go?

He and his coach don't overly emphasize indoors. The other two runners are very very good, have indoor races under their belt this year, and are probably thankful to get pulled along to PB's as must be Fisher to have them in the race to push him. That's how people racing (true athletes and competitors) usually feel when they all posts personal bests in a race and they congratulate each other etc. It's the armchair critics that make a big deal out of nothing, complain, critique, and stir the pot etc. All three athletes are very talented and will do well in whatever they choose to do. And so that goes to others in the race - 4th was 4:17!

Winning a mile race by 2 to 3 seconds in a very high caliber (fastest HS mile race in the nation so far this indoor season) field = end of conversation.

The real conversation should be not about who is the best talent but about the track and field HS talent that is clearly evident in Michigan and around our country. I applaud Fisher for jumping into his first race of the season, given his standing in HS running, and racing against the national 800 m champion and another kid that has proven he can run really fast. That takes a lot of guts, and a love for competition. Given the same set of circumstance, many might think about "what if I lose" - not this kid. Whatever his fitness level, and whatever the race/competition setting is he wants to execute his race strategy and win by giving his best on that day. That is a healthy mindset and a mindset of a champion.

Enjoy it folks and learn something from it. Michigan... you may not see that kind of HS talent roll around the track again for a long long time.

lkndag8934 wrote:

I agree with Flagpole:

4) Finally, odd to compare an 800 guy to a 1600 and up guy. Not the same race, not the same kind of runner for each.

Also glad to hear that Rojo was out running.

and

Linsanity wrote:

I think people are just shocked that Rojo would fall for YAHOO headline-like click bait.

"Talent doesn't even compare!" Come on.

Yes it's bizarre to compare the 2. But one big part of the post was to reemphasize a point we always make/bemoan about running - there is a fascination about the 'next great thing' instead of appreciation for the current great thing.

The idea that Fisher may not be the best in is state is borderline absurd but also fascinating at the same time. Me falling for clck bait is good for business. Generally if I think it's interesting, others do as well.

As for me running. does 2.5 miles total count with a 30 minute break in the middle. 1.25 miles to dog park, dog plays, we return home.

The Brazier doesn't have the "fitness" yet is completely backwards statement.

If anything it's Grant who is not yet fit. Grant is a distance guy and is early february, which means he's running 4:07 off a mostly base and he's yet to hit the repeats hard. His fitness is yet to come.

Brazier on the other hand is an 800 guy and probably starting hitting the repeats as soon as cross ended. He's as quick as he going to get and his aerobic fitness won't be developing anytime soon.

Regardless of what either are doing for workouts, Grant Fisher is aerobically light years beyond what Brazier has, which gives him far more upward potential this season than Brazier.

In the long term maybe Brazier does have more potential because he's not yet aerobically trained and has more naturally athletic ability as indicated by his buttery smooth form, BUT the fact is that 99/100 kids with smooth form and "talent" never develop aerobically.

Give me a break CC.