NOP Haters It's Time to Waive the White Flag - Levins Wins Proves Alberto Salazar is the Best Coach PERIOD

jxj wrote:

rojo wrote:

(The third view would be they collect the very best talent but I certainly wouldn't put Mo Farah or Cam Levins in that category before they got to Alberto)

You don't consider a 12:5x runner to be some of the very best talent???

No I don't.

Farah was an 'also ran' at the international level before he came to the NOP. Now he's a world beater. Remember, the #1 guy in a race is often significanly better than the #7. There's a big difference between sneaking a bronze at a Worlds or maybe even winning in a year when the favorite is hurt or something and dominating.

I only started really following elite track and field around 1992 but basically my entire life up utnil Farah the dominant person in the 5k/10k was born dominant. Haile then Bekele. No one developed from back half of the world final to being dominant.

At age 26, Farah was 7th in the Worlds 5k in 2009. In 2008, he went out of the heats of the Olympics.

-Rojo

PS. I just thought of another defense. One could argue all of the African talent has gone to the marathon but people who make this argument dont' realize how historically good Farah is. Farah's 328 speaks for itself.

rojo wrote:

PS. I just thought of another defense. One could argue all of the African talent has gone to the marathon but people who make this argument dont' realize how historically good Farah is. Farah's 328 speaks for itself.

His 3:28 does not speak for itself unless he was competing for 1500 medals. He has run nothing close to that level in the 5k/10k.

The argument that all the talent has gone to the marathon IS likely correct. The rest of the explanation is that the guys who used to beat Farah are injured or retired (Bekele, Sihine, Kenyans, Lagat, Eritreans, etc). Remember, Wanjiru ran faster than Farah has AS A JUNIOR. Then he left for the marathon.

Farah still has yet to run a really standout 5k/10k time. His greatest strength is his speed which his 3:28 shows. His medals have all been in races that were slow sit and kick races. If Bekele and the rest of the Africans were still around, he would still be an also ran because they wouldn't have let the pace stay so slow.

He is better than he was in 2008, but I doubt he would be competing for a medal if those 2008 guys were still around.

Well, with your logic then ALL athletes who steadily progress to world class status should be suspect.

Coburn

Simpson

Martinez

Wilson

To single out one track club when it has never produced a positive drug test is pretty pathetic

"Don't think the real value of Mo is 12'53". He ran already 12'57" in 2010, when we worked together for some month in Iten, in Zurich, and now is very much stronger, after going to Salazar. To think can run near 12'40" is something reasonable, such as the possibility of running under 26'30" in 10000m."

- Renato Canova, after Farah's 3:28 1500 in July 2013

"then Thank God I don't have to put up with you people forever lol"

Why thank God? You have no guarantee you are going to heaven. You will likely be sent to the LRC-forum heaven, where you be forced to read posts that do not support the same view-point you have of your heroes. They will forced to read your posts.

Come to think of it, you are already in LRC-forum heaven, and the joke is, you will never get to know you are for all eternity.

The law of sports is: for every fan there is an anti-fan. It all evens out.

Share the love and hate wrote:

To single out one track club when it has never produced a positive drug test is pretty pathetic

Mary Slaney. Or does she not count because the track club had a different name back then? Now that's pathetic.

You are pathetic

Why don't you take your fantasy doping evidence against the current NOP to USADA / WADA since you're so sure of yourself.

Do us all a favor and PROVE these vicious slanderous lies that people keep spewing

Like I said, pathetic

I feel like saying he's transformed from an also-ran to a world beater is a really misleading way of putting that.

Farah was an also-ran in the late 2000s, but that's mostly because at that point, the top 2-3 runners in the distance races were arguably in the top 5 all time. In the 10k you had Bekele and Sihine. The 5k had Bekele, Kipchoge, and Lagat. During that time, the top few athletes were much better than the chase pack because they were among the best ever. Farah was part of that second tier, but he consistently moved up in it in his pre-Salazar years.

The years Farah started winning were the same years that those competitors started leaving those events, either due to injury like Bekele, or because they moved to other events like Kipchoge and Sihine. Farah went from being in the top end of that chase pack to world champion because the 2 or 3 world beaters in front of him disappeared and he got slightly better than the rest of the group. The fields in championship finals are still ridiculously deep, but the sharp peak at the top isn't as high as it used to be. He's definitely top 10 in the 5k/10k but both his PRs and head to head results against those guys (when healthy) suggest that he's not quite where they are on the all time lists. Farah is an amazing distance runner but I'm unconvinced he's as good as his predecessors were.

That 1500 however baffles me, Still trying to figure out how that one came from...

Seems pretty obvious what NOP's secret is--develop closing speed.

I remember watching the 2012 Olympic 10,000m final seeing Rupp kick past the Africans and I was shocked.

THE reason Mo is so good is his kick.

And now we're seeing even Hasay have a decent kick. Levins' finish in both the mile and especially the two mile was awesome.

I don't know how he does it, but it's extremely effective.

Meh, Levins was incredible before he joined NOP, so the Armory didn't prove anything.

anyone wrote:

I don't know how he does it, but it's extremely effective.

Dwain Chambers called it "the lightness."

Facts:

Salzar is obviously a very strong distance and long mid-distance coach, in terms of bringing along athletes who are already elite.

He has ZERO history outside of Rupp of actually developing an athlete from a level that isn't at least WC/OG finals contention.

He is possibly the most overrated marathon coach on earth, since he mostly seems to end careers and stagnate athletes at that distance.

He has stated in very strong terms that he is comfortable with pushing the limits of legal, somewhat of an "if you don't get caught you aren't cheating" attitude.

Galen Rupp was tested by USADA last year more than any other runner in the US, by a massive factor.

Duckers wrote:

Hello, A Duck. Still posting your "usual" defensive posts. Good to see you haven't give up tilting at windmills.

I am not "A Duck". More flawed deductions and speculation.

See how easy it is to be wrong in your assumptions.

Seriously, stop fantasizing stories about and slandering the NOP

Either submit your proof that the current NOP athletes are doping or STFU!

Skeptic/Sceptic wrote:

A women who ran 4:00.33 in 2008, and at the same locale six years later ran 3:59.49, now runs 4:22 (=4:03-04?), and so at this point you conclude she's not clean, and accuse others of not paying attention. One thing message boards teach is how widespread a lack of intelligence is.

road rashed wrote:

Rowbury ran the juiciest mile indoors yesterday in quite some time. 4:22 on a flat track that is not fast. If you think she's clean, you're not paying attention.

I do not suspect Rowbury at all, but I used to use the same logic (has maintained about the same speed for many years) to support Regina Jacobs, who had run close to 4 for well over ten years, before, of course, testing positive for PEDs.

Lol, "ZERO... Except for Rupp".

So it's not zero is what you are saying?

Nevermind that no coach is turning chicken #### into chicken salad. Get real.

To me, the Centro "discussion" last winter seems very suspect to me. I've heard a lot of rumors from elites and coaches that something illegal occurred.

However, I also understand how word of mouth can cause exaggeration so take it with a grain of salt.

My current view is innocent until proven guilty. I want to believe they are clean but would not be surprised to see the club implode like the Postal Team did.

Delusional people wrote:

Duckers wrote:

Hello, A Duck. Still posting your "usual" defensive posts. Good to see you haven't give up tilting at windmills.

I am not "A Duck". More flawed deductions and speculation.

See how easy it is to be wrong in your assumptions.

Seriously, stop fantasizing stories about and slandering the NOP

Either submit your proof that the current NOP athletes are doping or STFU!

Exactly, NOP bashing on here is one of the most pathetic displays I've seen on these boards right next to some of the relationship threads. Zero failed tests, zero evidence, a great amount of success by people who are fairly likable and American(most bashing is from Americans I would guess based on the population of the board).

I can't count how many threads I've emailed letsrun about and had deleted and its becoming an inconvenience. Provide your evidence, or get a life.

I really don't like Nike the corporation, but you have to hand it to Salazar on the coaching. Sure, there is always room for improvement, but what I think he has done that is most successful is to realize that elite races are about speed, most often finishing speed. You're just not going win at an elite level without speed.

The Salazar analyzes, maybe too much, the capabilities of his runners, and creates training plans to develop speed. He also incorporates "whole body" cross-training, developing supporting muscles and diverse fitness regimes to maximize speed.

A guy like Levins had the potential for sure, and I think he has never looked more fit and relaxed at speed. He also seems to have reduced a small bit of body fat. Same for Hasay - she has never looked better physically, and her leg speed keeps improving.

I truly doubt that all these athletes are doping without getting caught or accidentally sharing the info with the wrong people.

Maybe they are not cheaters but they are certainty not ethical.